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kruzenvax
02-06-2011, 04:31 PM
Hi all,

This is my 1st post here; I have never owned Jeep before so I obviously know very little about them. I'm thinking however about replacing my 2008 Toyota Kluger Grande with Jeep GC Overlander soon (test driving this Saturday). Reasons? Lets say - a lot of them.

I would appreciate if the knowledgeable audience of this forum would be kind enough to answer some of the newbie questions? Some of them have probably been answered somewhere (I have studied the New Owner thread for example) but it looks like I couldn't find answers amongst all other info.

I'm not posting my questions yet because I wanted to find out 1st if it is appropriate to ask them here.

Thanks

kj69
02-06-2011, 04:41 PM
ask away someone will direct you to the right place if needed :)

SeaComms
02-06-2011, 04:47 PM
As KJ said, ask away! We are mostly a friendly bunch and if any of your questions have been covered before in any detail someone will remember and find a link for you. I personally wont be able to answer many (if any) as my knowledge is limited to the JK, so I will just say a big welcome then bow out gracefully :)

eksjay
02-06-2011, 07:32 PM
Clue-ger eh?

First, what are your reasons for switching?

Must be another boring Toyota ride.

Welcome to the world of exciting motoring.

kruzenvax
03-06-2011, 05:46 PM
Thanks to all for responding,

I'm going to post in 2 parts now. 1st part is what kind of car I need (perhaps it will help to understand some of my questions) and why am I ditching Kluger.

I'm not an offroad person (or have been so far). I was looking for a big family tourer with good onroad drive, enough storage, all these small gizmos, ability to tow my 2t boat, awd/4wd for safety and ramp work and - as I travel on unpaved roads from time to time - ability to keep going confidently, when after 10km's on unpaved road I encounter that single bump a sedan or wagon can't handle. Reliability is also a key. I don't need a 7-seater at all.

Kluger ticked all boxes. I know there is an opinion that the ride is boring, but it (onroad) was OK to me (what should I expect from Jeep then). Fuel economy is also OK. Never had a serious onroad fail - e.g. when I have to stop, call the rescue, etc. There are some small issues - like not all gizmos I wanted are there, handbrake is too weak for the ramp work... but I can deal with that.

The main problem for me is build quality. I lost counts of various recalls; well, the legal term is not necessary a recall, but it is when I receive a nice letter suggesting that I need to bring the car to the dealership. Interior build quality is also poor - a lot of panels were squeaking, rattling, etc and has to be re-fitted.

So that is why I'm switching and Jeep GC Overlander (5.7 or diesel, can;t decide for myself) seem to be a replacement. So thanks and I'm looking formward to see comments.

Questions will follow.

Thanks

undecided
04-06-2011, 05:51 AM
I would love to be buying a new grand cherokee. I worked for a toyota dealer for a number of years (not in sales) and never understood how they had earned a reputation for quality and reliability. As I am sure you are aware the current Grand cherokee is very new and there are still a number of buyers waiting on pre ordered vehicles so long term feed back will be difficult. The Kluger was seen by toyota as a rival for the territory, both are very much road cars, i would suggest more so than the Jeep. Are you sure you are on the right track?

kruzenvax
04-06-2011, 08:39 AM
The Kluger was seen by toyota as a rival for the territory, both are very much road cars, i would suggest more so than the Jeep. Are you sure you are on the right track?

Honestly - not sure; that is why I'm asking. Have heard new Jeep is also good on road?

Richo
04-06-2011, 07:33 PM
Thanks to all for responding,

I'm going to post in 2 parts now. 1st part is what kind of car I need (perhaps it will help to understand some of my questions) and why am I ditching Kluger.

I'm not an offroad person (or have been so far). I was looking for a big family tourer with good onroad drive, enough storage, all these small gizmos, ability to tow my 2t boat, awd/4wd for safety and ramp work and - as I travel on unpaved roads from time to time - ability to keep going confidently, when after 10km's on unpaved road I encounter that single bump a sedan or wagon can't handle. Reliability is also a key. I don't need a 7-seater at all.

Kluger ticked all boxes. I know there is an opinion that the ride is boring, but it (onroad) was OK to me (what should I expect from Jeep then). Fuel economy is also OK. Never had a serious onroad fail - e.g. when I have to stop, call the rescue, etc. There are some small issues - like not all gizmos I wanted are there, handbrake is too weak for the ramp work... but I can deal with that.

The main problem for me is build quality. I lost counts of various recalls; well, the legal term is not necessary a recall, but it is when I receive a nice letter suggesting that I need to bring the car to the dealership. Interior build quality is also poor - a lot of panels were squeaking, rattling, etc and has to be re-fitted.

So that is why I'm switching and Jeep GC Overlander (5.7 or diesel, can;t decide for myself) seem to be a replacement. So thanks and I'm looking formward to see comments.

Questions will follow.

Thanks

Seriously..........keep the Kluger.
Jeep dont to factory recalls...... they have a track record of sticking their head in the sand, and making customers pay for what should be recall upgrades/fixes.
Toyota reliability (and probably resale) will poo all over jeep.

You dont want to wheel it offroad, so stick to the Kluger. It does everything you want it to and you've alreay dropped $$ in depreciation. Keep it.

Apparently the new GC's are better, but build quality and Jeep are not 2 (3?) works you would have previously heard much in the same sentence.

Sorry.

ENFORCER
05-06-2011, 08:03 AM
Havign ordered a CG Overlan CRD, I am hopeful that Jeep are a better company under Fiat. We are getting out of a Territory Turbo Ghia and before that a Kluger.
The GC is a great car in all aspects. They have been out in the USA for 12 months, so there is some history about the model. Reading forums always puts a bad slant on problems, as people will post a problem, not a compliment.
I think you would be very hard pressed to find a better car under $100k. It will do what you want and will hopefully bring a better resale when the time comes to trade. You may want to wait until next month when the Diesel (CRD) model is released. The price will be about the same as a Hemi, but it is a great motor.

drj33p
05-06-2011, 08:47 AM
Toyota might do recalls but they still treat there customer like sh!t i've had dealings with them and know people that still work there and if you gave me Toyota i would sell it.

I've had no major problems with Jeep, they suplied all parts for my swirl motor
and the it was out of warranty (try that at Toyota) and have always found them fare and resonable. Toyota is over priced,over rated and rely on a faulse reputation based on people that just keep buying them because they don't look outside the square (or is that sheep pen).

My '06 Grand is the best all round thing i've owned and at the time was the most powerfull CRD 4wd under $100k it took the 200 LC to be more powerfull and they still use more fuel and oil than a my Jeep.

And with all the money i saved buying a Jeep i was able to kit it out to my requiments, have a better truck and still have change.

kruzenvax
05-06-2011, 10:35 AM
Thanks to all for the feedback.

Richo, thanks for the opinion, if Jeep/your experience is like that - it is somehow discouraging and may be a showstopper for me.

drj33p and ENFORCER, thanks as well, your point is also taken; I honestly hope that this is the case with the new Jeep.

I'm happy to wait for the diesel - and this is my MAIN question I'll certainly need some help with (below)

I took the car (limited upgraded to this air suspension thing and 5.7 hemi) for a short test drive yesterday. It went very well; the only 2 problems - really strange position of a handbrake (foot brake?) pedal and inability for the rear seat passenger (She, Who Makes the Decision) to control the aircon (in the Kluger there are controls available to back seat passengers).

BUT: It was 5.7 hemi and the dynamics/performance (acceleration, etc) were OK but not extremely crisp (not a sports car of course). Very much OK to me; but, CRD as far as I understand, has less kW/torque than hemi. So, does this mean that is the same car is just OK with hemi it will feel underpowered under the diesel? Very critical info for me, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

kj69
05-06-2011, 11:12 AM
im thinking you would prefer a range rover.

DownSouth
05-06-2011, 12:13 PM
I have two Jeeps I have had a Paj a Prado and an assortment of older bunky 4wds
My 2007 JK has had no failures and I wheel it all the time off road, it has 137000 ks and I have had regular servicing with a only a few warranty issues. Currently I need to do a clock spring which may not be cheep depending on how it gets sourced ;)
I have the new Limited GC with quadralift (V6 Petrol) and it is simply awsome on road and will be our Exmouth drive car on our north west fishing trips. The build is markedly improved just to look at under the bonnet. Twin fire walls (Very mercedes) with some smart upgrades. I love driving it. I know there are a few that hate Jeep and would never buy another one, but I have to say I am a Jeep convert and I have never enjoyed driving so much as I do now. To hell with the small farty crap that people get cought up on... Life is getting shorter every day. On the resale... MY GC was much cheaper than the Prado with all the same fruit minus some so not a big deal for me. For me its what you want to drive, its at least a 4 year snapshot from your life dont compromise how you want to live it or drive it.
Good luck - I hope you get as much fun as I had

LSE3.9
05-06-2011, 01:13 PM
im thinking you would prefer a range rover.

That same thought crossed my mind.

But back to Jeeps - is it or is it not fair comment to say that the Jeep diesels are more problematic than the Jeep V8s?

drj33p
05-06-2011, 02:00 PM
That same thought crossed my mind.

But back to Jeeps - is it or is it not fair comment to say that the Jeep diesels are more problematic than the Jeep V8s?

I would say no, every vehicle is different because everybody drives different, some do lots start/stop, some drive easy some hard, some 4wd others don't,some don't know how to treat a diesel, and some just don't care.

I always make sure glow plug light is out before starting,so why did mine all need replacing at 85k and some 3.0L motors have well over 100k and are still fine.

Sometimes there's just no rime or reason, every make has it's drammars and some more than others but if you go read some other forums like Toyota and check out "OH WHAT A LEMON" i don't think you would be rushing out to buy a Toyota.

kruzenvax
05-06-2011, 02:56 PM
Re. RangeRover - I think it is substantially more expensive car than the Jeep, not in my price range.

Thanks for your comments - may I please get your thoughts on V8 vs diesel performance?

Thanks

JRJ33P
05-06-2011, 03:21 PM
Re. RangeRover - I think it is substantially more expensive car than the Jeep, not in my price range.

Thanks for your comments - may I please get your thoughts on V8 vs diesel performance?

Thanks


Diesels nowadays arent the clunky old smokey things they used to be.

The current diesels on the market now are are alot quicker, smoother and heaps more fuel efficient.

The current 3.0L CRD in the WH is 160kw and 510nm, and will out run a 4.7 V8 in the same car down the quarter - so they are very quick and powerful.

The diesel is also alot more touquier then a petrol, so it is a much better vehicle to tow with and still doesnt suck anywhere near the fuel a petrol would.

as far as I know, the new CRD thats being released next month is still a 3.0l v6 but is manufactured by VM Diesels. This engine is a brand new design, with something like 170kw and 550nm, so i would imagine it will be very similar to the merc motors in terms of power, if not better.

However, as it is a brand spanking new engine, there is no long term history on it yet, so they are still yet to prove themselves, but all signs so far are very positive.

Hope that helps you.

kruzenvax
05-06-2011, 03:41 PM
Thanks, it does help as lot. Honestly, I can't pretend to be understanding, how 170kw engine can outrun 300+kw... but that is the message I'm getting so I trust people with experience. Will definitely wait for a diesel to test drive.

If I may ask - are there any disadvantages on diesels?

Thanks

LSE3.9
05-06-2011, 03:55 PM
I would say this re the modern diesel engine in general- more expensive to buy, more expensive to service and todays diesel engine is very finnicky about the fuel it gets - it must be top notch and scrupulously clean. They also abhorr short running and stop/start work.

drj33p
05-06-2011, 04:21 PM
I would say this re the modern diesel engine in general- more expensive to buy, more expensive to service and todays diesel engine is very finnicky about the fuel it gets - it must be top notch and scrupulously clean. They also abhorr short running and stop/start work.

Mine does short running, sits in peak hour traffic every morning, tows a 3T off road caravan to anywhere i want to go, made it through this years Camp Coffs and is still goes like the clappers and even fully loaded with the van on the back on a trip i can still get 18L/100K's.
Do that in a petrol.

kruzenvax
05-06-2011, 04:42 PM
How does your diesel feel on the highway (with no trailer/caravan)?

Thanks

LSE3.9
05-06-2011, 05:00 PM
Mine does short running, sits in peak hour traffic every morning, tows a 3T off road caravan to anywhere i want to go..... even fully loaded with the van on the back on a trip i can still get 18L/100K's.
Do that in a petrol.

Can't and don't want to argue with you - that is great.

What I meant was that diesel engines don't last as long under these conditions. And this is only important if the diesel engine car is a long time keeper purchase or a second hand purchase.

drj33p
05-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Thanks, it does help as lot. Honestly, I can't pretend to be understanding, how 170kw engine can outrun 300+kw... but that is the message I'm getting so I trust people with experience. Will definitely wait for a diesel to test drive.

If I may ask - are there any disadvantages on diesels?

Thanks
Firstly the 4.7L V8 isn't 300kw not shore what it is but maybe a little under 200kw.

As for the diesel,true they don't like bad fuel but what modern engine does,i travel a bit and so far no dramas but i am about to fit a Water Watch filter system just to be on the safe side.Apart from that i spose the only disadvantage i see would be engine replacement that will cost about twice as much as a petrol.

In the end it's your choice, if you go with the Grand i don't think you'll be disapointed.You'll get out of your Toyota Klunker with very limited ability into a Jeep Grand Cherokee that will take you just about anywhere,tow just about anything,won't cost a arm and leg at the bowser and do it in style and comfort.

Good luck with your reserch and choice i'm shore you'll make the wright one for you.

WKD60
05-06-2011, 05:23 PM
I honestly think you'd be crazy to buy petrol over diesel in anything short of a sports car these days. They are just so frugal, tow better, easier to drive and go just as well as a petrol.

kruzenvax
05-06-2011, 06:28 PM
Thanks for the info.

I was actually comparing the diesel with 259 kW at 5,200 rpm and 520 N.m of torque at 4,200 rpm of 5.7 l HEMI... but I hear the message that diesel is a very reasonable choice despite less power... Will certainly wait for it to arrive before making the decision.

I also understand Jeep is a new model and some people have had troubles in the past and I respect all opinions, not necessary positive. And I will consider all of them. Kluger however is the 1st car in my life I really want to get rid of.

pmac
06-06-2011, 09:28 AM
"It's a Jeep Thing". And it really is. You either love them or you hate them. I bought one a few years ago, and now I love them.

People who buy Toyota's want a car to get them from A to B and don't care about the journey in between. Toyota's have no passion. They are just plain bland. But generally they will get you to where you want to go, which is why "Joe Average" buys them.

If you "like" your cars, go for the Jeep. If what type of car you have doesn't worry you, keep the Kluger.

What No Jeep
06-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I have just traded my 2008 Grand Cherokee in on a Discovery 4.

If you turn your cars over every few years the one thing you will not like, coming from a toyota to a jeep is the huge amounts of money it will cost you.

When I bought the Jeep the other car I considered was a Prado GLX TD.

Both cost just over $60k, 3 years later with 90,000ks the Jeep was worth $24k but a prado would have been almost $15k more (as per red book, and mates at work that change Prado's every 3 years)....plus I had spent almost $8k on servicing.

Now the Toyota is a boring bland vehicle and I did not buy one this time either, but I didn't think the Jeep was worth the extra $20k it cost me over 3 years in depreciation and servicing.

From the research I have done, I hope the D4 will be somewhere in between, a enjoyable and very capable car that is still worth a few bob in a few years time.

If you keep your cars for years and years and then throw them in the bin with over 200,000ks on the clock then it not as important.

Considering reliability, the latest of those JD power survey's (yes from the US) shows that Toyotas crown is slipping but Chrysler/Jeep is still yet to show signs of improvement (Landrover +31%). That said my Jeep never let me down, (still poor compared to the GU Patol I owned previously which did not have a single issue in 90,000ks) the Jeep had a few electronic modules cr@p out and require replacement, but I just need to turn it off and back on again for a week until the dealer replaced them.......,although they never did fix the auto up drivers window, intermittently faulty from day one. And a few oil leaks needing attention.

Just remember coming from a Toyota to a Jeep your wallet is going to SCREAM!

briteway
08-06-2011, 07:34 PM
"It's a Jeep Thing". And it really is. You either love them or you hate them. I bought one a few years ago, and now I love them.

People who buy Toyota's want a car to get them from A to B and don't care about the journey in between. Toyota's have no passion. They are just plain bland. But generally they will get you to where you want to go, which is why "Joe Average" buys them.

If you "like" your cars, go for the Jeep. If what type of car you have doesn't worry you, keep the Kluger.

Well said. I've owned a WG and now have the WH, they are awesome. I've had some minor things with the WG but nothing scary if you're mechanically inclined. It only becomes scary when you take it to the stealerships and they price you a ridiculous amount of money for something so "pissy."

With the WH, no issues at all. It's an '05 model, HEMI. I usually keep my cars for a very long period. The WG had 200K k's on the clock. The only thing about the HEMI's is the fuel consumption. I'll give you my figures, although, others have different experiences. City peak 23-26L/100km, Mixed City/Highway 18-21L/100km, Open road 15-16L/100km. I know of someone with a CRD and does 12L/100km.

As said previously, diesels are much more refined these days, powerful, quiet (enough), fast. They're are in their 16's down quarter mile. Take that for a diesel. But the HEMI is an awesome drive and sound (only if you can somehow justify the heavy fuel drinkage).

As far as squeekings and other noises from interior and the exterior of the vehicle, I have no words for them. I've taken mine to... you name it. Deserts, desert corrugations, mud, rocks, median strips, gutters, extensive gravel journeys (with well over 500km at one time), snow, water crossings, ruts, etc. etc. and no squeeks or any noises. At first I used to think that my wild trips would wreck the vehicle and will have those annoying noises as I used to have in the Toyotas (and brand new, mind you and even before seeing any gravel or offroad). I had the WG for a very long time and never had this issue. My '05 WH is following suit.

The only things, as said by WhatNoJeep, are the depreciation (if you're not intending to keep the vehicle for a long period of time) and cost of repairs if problems occur (if you don't know how to do it yourself). After my cars run out of warranty, they never see the mechanic except when going for pink slips.

I hope you own one and develop a passion as many of us have.

ENFORCER
08-06-2011, 09:29 PM
I also tested the Hemi in the Overland and found it a tad gutless, but I think it is because it was still tight, with only 30km on the clock. The CRD does 0-100km/h in 6.2 and the Hemi in 7.8, so they are close. You can also bet there will be a piggyback or plugin upgrade to extract more power form the stock motor. They seem to get 50hp+50nm from this simple undetectable upgrade.
With the price of fuel going up, I think the CRD will hold its value far better than a Hemi. As for depreciation, it remains to be seen, but the previous models were when Chrysler was going bust and their build quality/service was not up to scratch.
Since Fiat has taken them over and they have built the WK2 models, they seem to have picked up their game. The WK2 has been out in the USA for 12 months and there does not seem to be any common problems. The main ones beign the Quadralift. It seems a problem only a minority have and they are working on a fix.
You would be hard pressed to get a better bang for your buck vehicle

Blind_Freddie
09-06-2011, 06:01 AM
I have just bought a new overland, and in the first run managed a creditible 12.5l per 100km, which is about the same as the Aurion which the Jeep is replacing, and better than the RAV4 which is going onto the market very soon. As for power, more than adequate for my needs. If I were after something to smoke the tyres at the lights, both Holden and Ford make excellent vehicles for this, along with plenty of aftermarket upgrades.

Blind_Freddie
09-06-2011, 06:03 AM
Something I forgot to mention, both of the Toyotas have annoying rattles in them. The Aurion's rattle is somewhere in the dash, and turned up 3 months after brand new, and Ravvie has a rattle in the passenger door, which has turned up only recently.

WK2JGC
14-07-2011, 07:34 PM
I've had two jeeps, the first series grand Cherokee (can't remember the model) that came back to Australia, and a TJ jeep wrangler. The grand was a brilliant car, and my first jeep. It took me everywhere and never missed a beat. No rattles, creaks or issues the whole time I had it.
It brought me into the 4x4 world, and took me places that I will never forget. My followup to that was a TJ wrangler, it was highly modified and even after serious 4x4ing and destroying the rear diff, jeep replaced it under warranty and it continued to be brilliant every day thereafter.

I moved away from the jeep brand and have tried land rover, Toyota, Nissan vw too name a few and the jeep held up it's purpose the best of the lot.

It's a jeep thing - agreed, and after nearly 8 years my wife has chosen to buy a new grand Cherokee in the diesel. After testing every other brand on the market, she fell for it straight away....I have every bit of faith this will be a great vehicle, and it will be even better than the last two.

Try it, live it, and enjoy the experience....if it's not for you, then move on....there is no perfect car, but it's great fun trying them all.