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Savvas
10-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Hi all,

Just letting you know of a bad experience today at a Sydney Eastern Suburbs Jeep dealer today. I wont name names, but the location is enough of a hint, because there's only one.

I had been talking to this dealer for over a week about getting a price on a new Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD. The spec I was after included about $4500 worth of extras, including Off Road pack, Rock Rails, upgrade of tyres to Cooper AT3 all terrains and other things.

After talking to them all week, I made the trip up Southern Cross Drive to this place to get down to business. They already knew the price I had in mind and promised to do an "exceptional deal that will not disappoint" ... yeah well.

They tried to talk me out of the Cooper tyres, because the Laredo already has Kumho all terrain tyres "that can handle water crossings up to the door handles" ... this bit was over the phone yesterday. I pointed out that the Kumhos are not all-terrains, they are all season tyres and dont try that on me again, because I've been 4wd'ing for the last 12 years and have a reasonable understanding of this. I also pointed out that water up to the door handles is beyond the GC's rated fording depth.

So my wife and I are there, were talking business, looks like they might actually meet price after I explained to them how I believe 10% of full RRP is not a big ask, and that 10% off is actually less than what my target is. I'm there with a cheque ready to put down a deposit right there and then. He asked me "do you have your cheque book", yes I do.

The sales guy has made 3 trips to the sale manager, as obviously they want more money and trying to upsell. On the 3rd time the sales manager comes in and says to me that to order the Off Road Adventure Pack, you must also order Quadralift for an extra $2500. After they confirm that the cheque book is with me ... suspicious eh.

Firstly, that sounds like crap to me. Secondly, they've had my spec for more than a week and this is the first time they've said anything about it. Thirdly, I've got quotes from 3 other dealers and none of them have said that I must order Quadralift.

They also said that anyone that currently has a GC ordered with Offroad Adventure Pack, is being advised that they must pay an extra $2500 for Quadralift. If they dont want it, they can break there contracts. To bad if they've been waiting months already. They show me a non-descript email from someone to someone else with pink highlighter stating that "AWY" must be ordered with "SER". I just looked at jeep.com.au, and jeep.com, and nowhere does it indicate that this is true.

I've told them it's a deal breaker, I intend putting an ARB bullbar and winch on it when it becomes available and I have no faith that the quadralift suspension will cope with the added weight. So they tell me to delete the Off Road pack ... I ask how much, and they then meet my price.
At no time did they give me a price for the original spec, which I suppose should have rung alarm bells.

So I just walked out.

These guys have 3 CJD dealerships in Sydney. If they all behave like that, then I'm afraid that a lot of the CJD buying public are getting suckered big time.

There are 3 other CJD dealers, that are not part of this chain, that are willing to talk real numbers and I'll be in contact with each of them on Monday.

JnK
10-03-2012, 01:34 PM
Interesting....
Today we spent time with our dealer looking at our Laredo that had just been delivered to them at 8pm last night. (yep, exactly as ordered Bright Silver with quadralift and all covered with plastic and sticky stuff as it came off the boat despite nearly 4 weeks in Brisbane quarantined by AQIS). Nearly 6 months wait so far.
In our discussion he mentioned he was spending full time calming customers down about delivery delays, how hard it was to get info, and issues with orders etc etc.

The part that relates is that he said he had a couple of customers who had ordered the Off Road Pack a while back, but not Quadralift, and he now had to go back to them and advise that QL is now included in the ORP with the extra QL price. This was a decision by the factory that Aus had no say in.
We didn't go into any more detail as it was almost in passing and didn't relate to us anyway, but your post is more than a coincidence.

Perhaps you might check carefully with your other dealers whether it is now a requirement to order both together.
We also had issues with the first dealer we went to so can understand your frustration.
Good luck
John

quints
10-03-2012, 01:55 PM
Sorry to hear of your shabby experience, Savvas. Didn't take me too long to figure out the dealer (and group) in question and, frankly, I'm pretty surprised. I'm inclined to think that the Dealer Principle would be mortified if they knew this is the way operations were happening 'on the floor'.

It's especially at odds given the reality of typical dealership operations. The 'big thing' these days is customer relationship management. Given that, typically, new vehicle sales provide, at most, only 7 to 9 per cent of total dealership profitability (despite being about 35 per cent of operational orientation), they need to do whatever they can to keep you in their orbit. Service and parts, for example, provides about 65 per cent of dealership profitability from an orientation of about 30 percent. I assume that you live within these guy's Prime Market Area? 'Cos that's a big incentive for them to 'do the right thing' and secure -- and retain -- your business.

Another factor is the margins available in the vehicles themselves. Frankly, there's bugger all. Gross per unit is typically about $2600-00 (in the non-luxury segment). But, that includes any aftermarket, manufacturer incentives and 'bonuses' (such as holdback) and load reversals. Absent those 'knock ons' resulting from a sale, they're often lucky to make $800-00 out of a vehicle heading out the door (I know of one make and model where the dealers are thrilled if they make $40-00 out of a sale, and so they need to 'load' with aftermarket and keep purchasers as happy as a pig in 'stuff' for the next 3 years to so much as break even. Not that their supplier gives a rat's . . . they just keep foisting those vehicles upon them).

And, who'd be a dealer anyway? An outlet represents anywhere between a $5 to $15 million dollar capital investment; if you're lucky, you'll have a 3 + 3 year agreement; that agreement can be terminated with as little as 3 month's notice; and, your supplier can choose to set up a competitor across the street. Sure, you might turn over up to $90 million a year, but the profit before tax is typically only 1.25 per cent! Imagine Harvey Norman operating on those figures! All the more reason to look after you as best as they can.

I'd be letting my business decision do the taking, Savvas. Unless, of course, you would prefer to deal with your 'local'. In which case, a quiet word in the Dealer Principal's ear might work wonders. For all you know, they might already have that particular Sales Manager in their sights. And, if the DP doesn't give a shirt, then they don't deserve your business in the first place.

All the best with it.

timbotrog
10-03-2012, 02:00 PM
I wonder if this has anything to do with getting as many people as possible away from the problems with the self leveling suspension.

pwy
10-03-2012, 06:52 PM
Yep, tried that dealer first but I obviously did not look like I could pay for a GC. Was in there for less than 10 min....

Went to western Sydney dealer next. Negotiated a good price, ignored the sales BS, paid $500 deposit and signed the contract for an Overland CRD.
That was back in early Sept.

Promised delivery was last week. First all went ok, GC was built around Xmas and build sheet indicated that all was the way I ordered it.
I was tracking the progress of my car but in early January the tracking indicated that it was sitting at the Chrysler factory yard and was not moving for over 2 weeks. I found out that it had transit damage and was repaired but for some unknown reason did not move after the repair was completed.

Alerted dealer around end of January and asked them to find out what was going on and why it was not moving. It's now mid March and my GC is still sitting in the same factory yard. Nobody can tell me why. Dealer is absolutely hopeless, Jeep OZ the same. Customer service in US has no clue and the only people showing some sort of interest were Fiat customer service in UK. They are now "investigating" but no results after 3 weeks!

Had to hassle dealer almost daily for the last month to try and get things moving. Finally dealer found another GC for me which supposedly can be delivered this month. Not the colour I ordered and missing the ORA pack but probably the best I can get without waiting another 6 months (which I don't have).

After 4 Jeeps I'm now very, very close to walking into the next Land Rover dealership and grab a Disco 4 from the showroom... but they are not available either :wall:

Doctor W
11-03-2012, 09:38 AM
4 Jeeps I'm now very, very close to walking into the next Land Rover dealership and grab a Disco 4 from the showroom... but they are not available either :wall:

I bought my first Jeep in 96 - a XJ limited after having had the worst nightmare experience of buying a new 95 model Range Rover 4.6 HSE (P38a type) for nearly a year .....singularly the worst car I've ever had, totally unreliable, unpredictable and dwelt in by poltergeists.....after owning (very happily) a 15 year run of Rangies which were bliss!.....XJ was a bit too old fashoned (rear cart springs and drums) and was replaced after year and half by a ZJ Limited which I've still got (as a "bush car" and which I honestly reckon is one of the best cars I've ever owned (and I've had lots!!!) in ANY price range.

However, having looked at the limits of the current QuadraLift system and it's rather limiting control arm lenghts (that limit up-down motion) and limited articulation and no-cross linking of the axles side to side (no acting like solid axles when required)......if I HAD to buy a medium/largish luxury 4X4 I'd be going to a Discovery, Range Rover Sport or Range Rover (RR now from $235,000 - YIKES!!!!).....unless of course Jeep modify their QuadraLift system in the next model to fix some of its significant shortcomings.

Tiddy
11-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Hi all,

Just letting you know of a bad experience today at a Sydney Eastern Suburbs Jeep dealer today. I wont name names, but the location is enough of a hint, because there's only one.

I had been talking to this dealer for over a week about getting a price on a new Grand Cherokee Laredo CRD. The spec I was after included about $4500 worth of extras, including Off Road pack, Rock Rails, upgrade of tyres to Cooper AT3 all terrains and other things.

After talking to them all week, I made the trip up Southern Cross Drive to this place to get down to business. They already knew the price I had in mind and promised to do an "exceptional deal that will not disappoint" ... yeah well.

They tried to talk me out of the Cooper tyres, because the Laredo already has Kumho all terrain tyres "that can handle water crossings up to the door handles" ... this bit was over the phone yesterday. I pointed out that the Kumhos are not all-terrains, they are all season tyres and dont try that on me again, because I've been 4wd'ing for the last 12 years and have a reasonable understanding of this. I also pointed out that water up to the door handles is beyond the GC's rated fording depth.

So my wife and I are there, were talking business, looks like they might actually meet price after I explained to them how I believe 10% of full RRP is not a big ask, and that 10% off is actually less than what my target is. I'm there with a cheque ready to put down a deposit right there and then. He asked me "do you have your cheque book", yes I do.

The sales guy has made 3 trips to the sale manager, as obviously they want more money and trying to upsell. On the 3rd time the sales manager comes in and says to me that to order the Off Road Adventure Pack, you must also order Quadralift for an extra $2500. After they confirm that the cheque book is with me ... suspicious eh.

Firstly, that sounds like crap to me. Secondly, they've had my spec for more than a week and this is the first time they've said anything about it. Thirdly, I've got quotes from 3 other dealers and none of them have said that I must order Quadralift.

They also said that anyone that currently has a GC ordered with Offroad Adventure Pack, is being advised that they must pay an extra $2500 for Quadralift. If they dont want it, they can break there contracts. To bad if they've been waiting months already. They show me a non-descript email from someone to someone else with pink highlighter stating that "AWY" must be ordered with "SER". I just looked at jeep.com.au, and jeep.com, and nowhere does it indicate that this is true.

I've told them it's a deal breaker, I intend putting an ARB bullbar and winch on it when it becomes available and I have no faith that the quadralift suspension will cope with the added weight. So they tell me to delete the Off Road pack ... I ask how much, and they then meet my price.
At no time did they give me a price for the original spec, which I suppose should have rung alarm bells.

So I just walked out.

These guys have 3 CJD dealerships in Sydney. If they all behave like that, then I'm afraid that a lot of the CJD buying public are getting suckered big time.

There are 3 other CJD dealers, that are not part of this chain, that are willing to talk real numbers and I'll be in contact with each of them on Monday.


Savvas...If my memory is correct & it sometimes isnt these day's, didnt you have a Jack previously?

tiddy

Savvas
11-03-2012, 09:01 PM
Savvas...If my memory is correct & it sometimes isnt these day's, didnt you have a Jack previously?

tiddy

Hi mate,

Yes I did, a 1999 MY00 Holden Monterey. It was a great 4by that never missed a beat and went anywhere it was pointed.

Unfortunately it was t-boned on 31 Jan, so now I'm looking for a worthy replacement.

Tiddy
12-03-2012, 08:03 PM
Yeah I thought so, I previously had a Fronty...a really underrated & criticised car...mainly by people who had never driven them...bit like Jeeps in a way.

To me the biggest drawback of the fronty was the damn fuel tank sitting under the passenger floor which tended to act as a massive scoop, especially in sand, but they have a sweet 3.2l V6.

Hope it goes well for the purchase & welcome to the site.

tiddy

Brisneyland
13-03-2012, 08:54 AM
Ordered mine last week, but had a complete change of heart on the colour. Asked to change colour Saturday, but told order placed on factory Friday.(with an end of April build date!) Im awaiting an answer whether I am bound to take the colour I no longer want, or if the factory will make the change. They have mentioned legal action to recover 10% of car (7.5k) plus $1k deposit if I cancel.

Alloy C/t
13-03-2012, 09:26 AM
Ordered mine last week, but had a complete change of heart on the colour. Asked to change colour Saturday, but told order placed on factory Friday.(with an end of April build date!) Im awaiting an answer whether I am bound to take the colour I no longer want, or if the factory will make the change. They have mentioned legal action to recover 10% of car (7.5k) plus $1k deposit if I cancel.

Dealer /Stealer wouldn't be on the nth side out Redcliff way would it ?

Savvas
13-03-2012, 08:28 PM
Yeah I thought so, I previously had a Fronty...a really underrated & criticised car...mainly by people who had never driven them...bit like Jeeps in a way.

To me the biggest drawback of the fronty was the damn fuel tank sitting under the passenger floor which tended to act as a massive scoop, especially in sand, but they have a sweet 3.2l V6.

Hope it goes well for the purchase & welcome to the site.

tiddy
That's right. I liked the Frontera's. Went hard and were also quite good looking.

Thanks for the welcome!

Savvas
13-03-2012, 08:31 PM
Ordered mine last week, but had a complete change of heart on the colour. Asked to change colour Saturday, but told order placed on factory Friday.(with an end of April build date!) Im awaiting an answer whether I am bound to take the colour I no longer want, or if the factory will make the change. They have mentioned legal action to recover 10% of car (7.5k) plus $1k deposit if I cancel.
You're kidding. All you want is a different colour! Have you contacted Jeep Australia to see if there's any option to change it there?

SeaComms
13-03-2012, 09:15 PM
Unless in the contract (which you by law should have a copy of) has mention of the 10% restocking fee then all they can keep is the deposit. However, since the build date is end of April, and the dealer is not ordering directly from the states, they only order from Chrysler Australia, I would suggest going to Chrysler directly as well.

To me sounds like they are just being a$$holes about the whole thing. They have made the sale and dont really want to help any more. Maybe approach the owner of the dealership and tell him straight up, you dont want to cancel the order, and if it means waiting another couple of weeks then so be it, but surely they cant be that difficult over an order that hasnt prob even been entered into the system yet. Did you order anything else different from stock that require a special build? Or is it just a particular colour of a stock model?

There are a few dealers on here too that could prob answer the question more accurately though.

Savvas
15-03-2012, 12:20 PM
Well I have now ordered my JGC. A True Blue CRD Laredo. I've ordered through Tynan's.

Unfortunately Jeep Australia confirmed that Offroad Adventure Pack must be ordered with Quadralift. So I had to go without the ORA.

But otherwise, I'm as happy as a kid in a lolly shop!

chrisk
15-03-2012, 02:40 PM
Just found this on the Jeep.com web site. I mentions 2 versions of the "off Road Group". The details are shown below:-
Feature Availability
Select model for specs:
Off -Road Adventure Group I Includes: Skid Plate Group (Front Suspension Skid Plate, Fuel Tank Skid Plate Shield, Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield, Underbody Skid Plate), Tow Hooks, Full-Size Spare Tire, P265/60R18 OWL On/Off-Road Tires, Steel Spare Wheel, and Trail Rated® Badge. Available on:
Laredo, Laredo X, Limited
Off -Road Adventure Group II Includes Skid Plate Group (Front Suspension Skid Plate, Fuel Tank Skid Plate Shield, Transfer Case Skid Plate Shield and Underbody Skid Plate), Quadra-Drive® II (if Equipped with 5.7L V8 Engine), Selec-Terrain System, Quadra-Lift® Air Suspension System, Outline White Letter Tires, 18-inch Aluminum Polished Wheels, Tow Hooks and Trail Rated® Badge. Available on:
Overland Overland Summit
Interesting that the different versions of the group apply to particular models of GC so according to this if you have a Laredo or Limited you can have it without the quadra-lift suspension. This is the link to the web site this came from:- http://www.jeep.com/en/2012/grand_cherokee/capability/off_road_performance/
It may be worth following up for others that are contemplating a purchase....

timbotrog
15-03-2012, 04:09 PM
Chrisk, I hate to burst the balloon, but thats the American Jeep website. They have far more options than we do. As an example, if you have a look at the 2nd ORG option you have there, it shows the tow hooks. These have been removed from the Australian and European versions due to safety concern with ANCAP etc.
If you have a look at the Australian Jeep website it only mentions the one ORG and it doesn't mention having to have the Quadra Lift suspension at all.


Morris 4x4 Jeep
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