Brake controller and Anderson plug [Archive] - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM Jeep News Australia and New Zealand

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Pete and Marg
01-05-2012, 06:30 PM
Hi All,
First post, just joined. I have a brand new one week old GC, WK Limited with Off Road option, Quadra Lift and tow-bar. I have been studying how to do the electric brake controller and anderson wire. On the Jeep USA sites it states that the Jeeps have existing wire for the brake controller under the dash going back to the rear of the car. Has anyone wired in these and where did they route the wires?
Many thanks,
Peter

Brown Dog
01-05-2012, 07:05 PM
Hi Peter

I am in the exact same position as you however I think I put the cart before the horse by purchasing a brake controller similar to the red arc with remote dial switch. I purchased a GSL Electronics RBC-12 remote brake controller. I hope it works as no room to place existing prodigy controller due to air bags.
I noticed that a Mopar brake controller harness can be purchased however I'm not sure what it does and if I need to run additional wiring.

The Anderson plug is an interesting discussion as I want to achieve 2 things; 1- charge battery in caravan and 2 - charge a battery in the back of the jeep for the engel. Not sure what to do for engel, either buy thumper, make a thumper, or find a sheet metal worker to make a tray to mount underneath using flat glass mat battery. Heaps of room and able to use bolts off tow bar both sides and rear tow hook mount. Just got to find someone willing and cheap enough.

I have had numerous opinions about the type of battery isolator as apparently the Jeep alternator is controlled to cut off charge? So existing redarc from Pajero is no good? I was told the redarc battery isolator BCDC1220 will do the job and condition charge both batteries however GSL have one as well much cheaper to suit Jeep? But not charge as well?

I hope someone can put us both on the right track?
I am visiting an auto electrician next week that has just done all the work on a new Jeep so I will see what he did and used.

Cheers

Browny

grand_wj
01-05-2012, 07:35 PM
Regarding the Anderson plug, go talk to your local auto elec and get some 6.5mm(may be wrong, ask auto elec for correct size) two core wire. Place the Redarc sbi12 12V Battery Isolater ($90.00) as close as you can to the car battery (closer the better) and then run your wire from your redarc under the car to ther rear of the jeep and add the connections..

Regarding the electric brakes.. Yes Chrysler does have an electric brake wire, but only problem is that it finishes just after the rear door. Meaning you have to spends ages pulling everything off just to get to the bloody wire.
your best off running the two wires from the electric brakes back to the the trailer plug and connecting it there..just my opinion..

Hope this helps

David Scott
01-05-2012, 08:28 PM
Hi there
I have a redarc remote brake controller mounted on the consule, works well. Just remember re the anderson plug if you have a compressor fridge in the van that is running off the van battery due to the long length 6 gauge wire may do but if you have a 3 way fridge that is running on 12 volt whilst driving you will have to increase the cable size. The fridge will suck most of the power and the vans charger for the van battery will suffer. I have a second battery in the Jeep which is charged via the vehicle and then continues to the anderson plug to the 3 way fridge which draws about 25 amps and then also charges the vans battery a 200 amp hour battery. I had a compressor fridge in my previous van and when I got my new van the 3 way fridge draws 4 times more power and with the voltage drop the van battery would not charge any where as quick as before. Remedy bigger cable. The bigger the cable the less voltage drop.
David Scott

Pete and Marg
01-05-2012, 08:38 PM
Hi Again,
Peter here, many thanks for comments and ideas.
The brake controller I have is a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 which will go inside the storage bin under the Lower switch bank. This was recomended by the dealer as the knee airbags would make the mounting under the steering wheel area impossible.
I have also purchased a Red Arc SBI12 which I was planning to mount next to the positive terminal under the bonnet near the brake fliud reservoir. Running the Anderson wire (I am planning on max size of 8mm) under the car is a good option - most likely wrap this in protective flex tubing. I have two batterys in the caravan and a RM2553 Dometic AES fridge. The fridge when driving runs 12v, 175 watss, 14.6 amps and the batterys are 2 x 100 amp. I have 8mm wire to them. I also need to run a wire to position 9 on a 12 pin trailer connector that senses when the engine is running for the smart logic AES fridge to draw from the Anedrson wire. I am hessitant to let any auto-elec tackle a Jeep GC unless they are experienced and have worked on one. The last auto-elec took many visits just to get a Prado correct for my setup and also charged double his quote.
I have the name of an auto elec that will do the work at home and will pre-prepare the car the day before -such as removing trims etc. for running wires.

Brown Dog
01-05-2012, 09:15 PM
Hey Pete

Any chance you can draw up a wiring diagram of some sort explaining where you sourced power for solenoid, brakes, and brake switching wires ( off brake switch or trailer plug?).
How will you remove the stowage bin to fit controller?
Excuse my terminology.
It your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Browny

arkaba_b
16-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Hi Folks

In my experience I have found a van battery will usually not charge to the same voltage as the car battery as the cable length required (6-8 metres) reduces the charging voltage at the van end to below the necessary level for a good charge. Eg to charge a 12v lead acid wet cell battery you need ~ 14.2 to 14.5v across the terminals & this is practically impossible to obtain with the high current loads involved (15Amps for a typical van fridge & same or more for the van battery charging).

I believe this is the main reason why caravan batteries have such a short life – they only get charged properly when the van is connected to AC mains power. This is not such a problem if you stay at ‘powered sites’ regularly but if you are on ‘unpowered sites’ for a few days & you have a high van battery useage there should be some other method of charging the van batteries (solar/gen etc).

My suggestion would be to forget trying – at great expense & with a whole lot of hardware – to charge the van batteries from the car alternator as it does not work satisfactorily & just use the car battery feed via the Anderson Plug to keep the Fridge going.

Alternatively you could use a 12V/240V inverter in the van (powered via the Anderson Plug) & run both Fridge & Battery charger via 240V. This site has a good article on the issue and other relevant topics for the caravanner –

http://home.iprimus.com.au/rfh/batteryfridgeproblems.html

Hope this helps

Cheers

A

:)

patience
16-05-2012, 07:11 PM
Hey Pete

Any chance you can draw up a wiring diagram of some sort explaining where you sourced power for solenoid, brakes, and brake switching wires ( off brake switch or trailer plug?).
How will you remove the stowage bin to fit controller?
Excuse my terminology.
It your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Browny

Google 'dual battery setup' and look in the images, you will find heaps of wiring diagrams.

pwy
16-05-2012, 07:37 PM
I got the dealer to mount a Tekonsha brake controller as part of the deal. It is mounted just above the (foot operated) hand brake. Thought first the location was not that great but in fact it does not interfere with the brake or anything else and it turned out to be a good choice for the mount.

pwy
16-05-2012, 07:51 PM
On the topic of Anderson plugs and charging....
I have done a few dual and triple battery systems at work and we always take a very heavy gauge wire direct from the battery and route it under the car to the Anderson plug at the back. Wrap it with protective plastic tubing and it will be a very neat installation.

Depending on need and budget we usually install a simple VSR (voltage sensitive relay) to control charging or a CTEK Dual (DC-DC charger) with or without CTEK Smartpass.

If you have long wires or a pre-existing installation you can't/don't want to change, adding a DC-DC charger will boost the available battery capacity in camper/caravan often by up to 25% simply by making sure the batteries get fully charged to 100%. Note: charging will not necessarily be faster but more complete.

Brown Dog
16-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Thanks Patience

Was sort of hoping for some photos of where to mount brake controller and Anderson plug controller on overland GC.
I thought the stowage bin was a bit tight for controller.

PWY
Pity I just went out and purchased a remote redarc style controller, should have stuck with existing Tekonsha controller in regards to where you mounted it.

PWY, with your experience in regard to Anderson Plug (I had a good system with basic redarc controller on my Pajero) do you know much about the BCDC1220 Battery Redarc Controller? I was told that it will charge the battery with available battery voltage including condition charging different types of batteries?

Cheers

Browny

JnK
17-05-2012, 06:09 AM
Like many others, I have fitted a Tekonsha p3 in the cubby in front of the console - works really well there and out of the way and door closed when not towing.
First off - the export version does not have a prewired harness - don't bother looking....
The dealer trailer wiring is connected up inside the trim in the LH rear and you will find the harness under the little lift out cubby bin in the bottom LH.
Stacks of information here http://www.jeepgarage.org/showthread.php?t=38575
and probably also on this forum but can't find it at the minute.
I use a Piranha battery isolator and charge our Jeep second battery that runs the Engel via a Sidewinder 30a DC to DC charger.
Plenty of information on this forum about installation of a second battery as well.
good luck
John

pwy
17-05-2012, 07:08 AM
PWY, with your experience in regard to Anderson Plug (I had a good system with basic redarc controller on my Pajero) do you know much about the BCDC1220 Battery Redarc Controller? I was told that it will charge the battery with available battery voltage including condition charging different types of batteries?

Cheers

Browny

Browny,
I have not used the BCDC1220 myself, we usually prefer CTEK. However the BCDC1220 is a good quality DC to DC charger which basically takes any reasonable input voltage and turns it into a proper charge voltage for your second battery. You can think of it as a standard car charger (the type that you plug in to 240V mains power) but instead of getting the power from 240V it will take it from the alternator/primary battery.

Of course there is a bit more to that but it's the same principle.

Charging with a BCDC1220 or a similar unit is pretty much the best you can do to your battery as they do a much better job that the crude way of charging through the alternator. But there is one big gotcha...
The BCDC1220 has a max charging rate of 20A and while this seems to be a lot, it is only 1/4 (or less) of what the alternator can deliver. So charging through a BCDC1220 will take 4 times longer compared to a simple VSR and direct alternator power! This will be an issue if you have high capacity batteries and don't drive long enough to recharge the batteries fully.

If you want faster charging you need to go to the BCDC1240 which gives you 40A output.

Another option is the CTEK Dual (20A output) and add a CTEK Smartpass for 80A output.


The best advise I can give you is to make sure you understand the implications of the different options before you pay big $$. Usually the products work fine and do what the advertising says but often people ignore the parts they don't understand and later are surprised why they do not get the desired result.

pwy
17-05-2012, 07:15 AM
That's where my brake controller lives...

Brown Dog
17-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Thanks PWY

By looking at the photo you must have cut out some of that carpet/felt panelling to fit controller. Wish I saw that option before buying a new remote controller.

I read up a bit on the CTEK dual system today, I think about $500+ for dual system with smartpass, just got to find a good wring diagram and figure out size of cable and how to set with caravan solar and dual battery in car.

I still want to find someone who can engineer a slim battery carrier (found flat gel battery thar can lay on side) to fit under rear using tow bar bolts and rear tow hook and supported from drivers side tow bar bolts.

Cheers
Browny

pwy
17-05-2012, 09:37 PM
Thanks PWY

By looking at the photo you must have cut out some of that carpet/felt panelling to fit controller. Wish I saw that option before buying a new remote controller.

I read up a bit on the CTEK dual system today, I think about $500+ for dual system with smartpass, just got to find a good wring diagram and figure out size of cable and how to set with caravan solar and dual battery in car.

I still want to find someone who can engineer a slim battery carrier (found flat gel battery thar can lay on side) to fit under rear using tow bar bolts and rear tow hook and supported from drivers side tow bar bolts.

Cheers
Browny


Browny,

Dealer fitted the brake controller as part of my deal. Only noticed the carpet in the picture. Need to have a good look in daylight tomorrow.

May also have a look under the car and see where you want to mount a battery. What capacity battery do you have?
Btw AGM instead of GEL battery would probably be better for that purpose and slightly cheaper as well.
I work at a battery place so have direct access to all sorts of batteries at bargain prices :)

For a wiring diagram just have a look at the wiring diagrams in the ctek dual manual. Google will track it down for you. It also contains a table with the suggested min cable sizes.

If you are considering a CTEK, that's another of the toys we sell at great prices...

Brown Dog
18-05-2012, 03:04 PM
Hi PWY

Yes the battery was a AGM, saw it in 4X4 shop, don't know if it's any good other than it can lay down flat with a height of 110mm, therefore would tuck in under back in some type of case.
REMCO. RM12-105FT. 105ah. 110(w). 490 (l). 240(h). Sealed unit. $495

Also on Federal Batteries web site for info.

Cheers
Browny

pwy
18-05-2012, 04:23 PM
Hi PWY

Yes the battery was a AGM, saw it in 4X4 shop, don't know if it's any good other than it can lay down flat with a height of 110mm, therefore would tuck in under back in some type of case.
REMCO. RM12-105FT. 105ah. 110(w). 490 (l). 240(h). Sealed unit. $495

Also on Federal Batteries web site for info.

Cheers
Browny

Good size but they are UPS batteries. Built for long standby and relatively few cycles. And important: they are built for sitting on stable ground. They don't like the constant shaking and vibrations in a 4wd. Don't think you would get a very long life out of it.

Looking around in our shop I would probably go for some Fullriver AGM batteries. The small 20Ah versions are only 77mm wide and 4 of them could easily be fitted in a tray. You could even go creative and distribute them in the different cavities or boxes found around the Jeep. Or 2 of the slightly bigger 35Ah versions.
Have a look here http://www.fullriver.com/products/dclist.htm for dimensions and capacities. The DC series are excellent deep cycle batteries and the HC series are very good dual purpose batteries with the advantage that they are capable of easily starting your car if required.
Also Lion has a range of very good AGM batteries in the same sizes as Fullriver.

There are really plenty of options if you look around. And before you spend $500 on a battery, PM me and you will find Jeep owners rates are much better ;-)


Now you have planted something in my head... wonder if I can stick some of the 20Ah batteries around the spare wheel area. May have to go for a walk to the car park with a couple of them :)

Brown Dog
18-05-2012, 08:43 PM
A mate who builds boats said to remove the spare wheel changing gear, mount it underneath then make a fiberglass mould to hold a battery and slot into spare wheel rim. Not sure if I could be bothered even though I could do the job myself.
I'm in no hurry, just got to take the time to work out best and cheapest solution. Hope to keep the Jeep for a few years!

JnK
19-05-2012, 06:47 AM
A mate who builds boats said to remove the spare wheel changing gear, mount it underneath then make a fiberglass mould to hold a battery and slot into spare wheel rim. Not sure if I could be bothered even though I could do the job myself.
I'm in no hurry, just got to take the time to work out best and cheapest solution. Hope to keep the Jeep for a few years!

It is probably possible to turn the spare upside down in the well and mount a battery inside the rim....
In our case as we only use the fridge when travelling now and with the van, I have taken the option to put the battery on a slide in module in the back, This module also holds the fridge, chairs and table and a set of drawers for all sorts of stuff. The battery connects to the DC/DC charger via an Andersen plug and I can use the same charger on the van if necessary. Extra power sockets are on the module and all fed from the module battery to keep the relationship with the Jeep wiring as simple as possible.
I can put the spare on the roof, or on the drawbar of the van, in a cover we have made. By taking a risk I can leave it in place and simply unload the module and slide out if I have to get access to the spare. The individual components are light and easily handled by myself (although the fridge when full is a struggle and the 100a battery is a lump).
The module is fixed in place by the bottom fitting into the lid recess and brackets extending into the spare hold down thread. We used to have this module in our previous Patrols but is has been a fair cut and shut to suit the Jeep. I've gained a fair bit of storage under the module as well, accessible through holes in the base.
Nothing rattles or jumps around and works very well for us.

Savvas
30-05-2012, 09:02 PM
Hi JnK,

Just so I can get some perspective, what size Engel is it you have there?

JnK
31-05-2012, 06:41 AM
Hi JnK,

Just so I can get some perspective, what size Engel is it you have there?

Its a 40l....
the original module came from our line of previous Patrols and though the footprint was only around 50mm larger to the WK2, the big issue was vertically the Patrol was square and the Jeep isn't. That reduced my area available considerably, and the finished module bears little resemblance to what I started with.
I used the lift out floor over the tyre as base reference and did a lot of measuring from inside with the rear lid closed, and got the fridge into the corner with around 12mm clearance to the closest points all round. I built the fridge slide myself to get it minimum size and keep it low as possible for access over the top for the missus as well. (that way I don't always have to be the one to get stuff out of the fridge)
Rear seats are in the upright position (because they adjust) to get max area too.
As you can see - I only just got it all in - but this module was influenced by me trying to use as much of the old one as possible.
Starting from scratch there might be a different result and arrangement.
Not long for you to go to delivery......you are going to love this new truck!!
Good luck
John