View Full Version : And away she rolls!
Parked the jeep on a decent hill yesterday, with my cosmetic handbrake on and in first gear. I come back half an hour later to find it half way down the hill, resting against a tree. No damage at all.
After moving it back & having a fiddle, I find that when I leave it in first, it rolls forward every now and then, turning the shaft & all. I have parked there tons of times with no hassle, but now it stuffs up.
Has anyone had similar experiences? I presume leaving it in second gear would be a better idea.
aussietj
24-07-2002, 01:24 AM
Jeff,
Had exactly the same prob, handbrake would not hold, adjusted it under the vehicle, still usless, :(
It wasnt until I had the rear shoes replaced that I found the cause, the RH side cable that attaches to inside the brake drum for the handbrake shoe was disconnected, been like that for a long time(probly since new) as the rub marks on the backing plate was fairly pronounced.
No wonder the handbrake didn't hold, since reconnecting it, no worries holds on any hill now smile.gif
Jimmyb
24-07-2002, 01:28 AM
BIG AUTO CRASH BOX. that'll fix it hehe.
TheDoc
24-07-2002, 06:05 AM
Attach winch rope to nearby tree smile.gif
Throw the hand brake away and keep the tree , you know for certain it will hold your jeep on any hill. ;)
Wooders
24-07-2002, 11:05 AM
Second would certianly help it roll to the bottom of the hill faster & easier tongue.gif
Reverse would be a better gear to select when pointed down hill & 1st better when pointed up hill.
Yes I have had the same thing (not as bad though) - NFI.....Any theories??? (other than swap an Auto in ;) )
TheDoc
24-07-2002, 11:25 AM
No, no, this is not going to be another of those "Buy a Toyota" replys...
My advice..
Park Sideways. smile.gif
Jeeps
24-07-2002, 12:43 PM
Do as Doc does,
fit dual diff locks so you can dig four holes to park her in.
Wooders
24-07-2002, 07:43 PM
Come on guys this is supposed to the a Tech section.
One theory I have - it might be due to a lack of compression....
The handbrake I can deal with, I'm going to see Jeep again about it (they tighten it, it works twice, and they dont charge me!).
What worries me is the fact that I park in that same spot every 2 or 3 weeks, and it has never rolled forward before. Could it be something in the gearbox?
Paranoia kicking in here!
Buddha
24-07-2002, 09:10 PM
why not park it at the bottom of the hill and walk up? :confused:
TheDoc
25-07-2002, 07:57 AM
Thats the sort of logic that will stop the Earth getting hit by this asteroid..... Get this boy to NASA quick!
billsta
25-07-2002, 08:24 AM
park your jeep with the tire up agains the kerb dude.. thats what i did for months when i had no hand brake..
uphill, point wheel to the road and then roll back till you hit the kerb,
downhill, point wheel to kerb and than roll forward till you hit kerb..
cheers.
Well if I have to be serious ... the jeep has a fairly low compression and first isn't that low so on a decent hill this creeping will happen.
The fix is
get the handbrake sorted
change to rear discs
select low low with t/case
a big rock under the wheel
the TJ hand brake is internationally recognised as being less than adequate just read some posts on JU
Went & saw Scuds in Chatswood today (Jeep Dealer). They tightened it again, and said that it's most likely due to my 'massive' 31" tyres, and the only thing they can think of doing is replacing the whole mechanism. Which I'm guessing will cost a fortune.
An interesing thing I did notice when I left there was that the normal brakes are a hell of a lot better now. Methinks it's not the handbrake as such, but the crappy rear drums that are the problem. Rear discs anyone?
OzJeeper
25-07-2002, 10:33 PM
Onr thing Iv'e found with the ZJ is that it holds no better with disks!!!!
Couple of things to look for on a drum rear end. (The car - not you)
Self adjusters are often not self adjusting. Do a manual adjust especially if you run in mud alot. Check and clean drums out often. High pressure hose is OK - dry them well.
Other thing is the handbrake cable is crappy wire and stretches heaps so you run out of adjustment pretty quickly. Not sure how to oversome this but the cable is not good. Adjusted mine 4-5 times 30k and it still won't hold well on the rear disks.
All else fails and you lack an appropriate tree, turn the wheels into the gutter, select first and also chock the rear wheel.
:(
Gojeep
25-07-2002, 10:46 PM
I found that the handbrake wouldn't work in reverse as the drum brakes are set up to work better going forwards.
Since going to Falson disk brakes the handbrake works much better and self adjusts which the old drums never did.
In a manual as stated above, you should always be in the opposite gear to the slope and heigher gears only make it worse. Just think what you do going down a steep hill, do you use first or fourth without brakes. graemlins/dunno.gif
My thoughts behind using 2nd gear:
If a higher gear is selected, then a further distance must be travelled by the wheels to turn the driveshaft.
In first gear, it just barely moved, one turn every 20 seconds or so. In second, would it not take a fair distance of movement (or a big bloody hill) before it turned the d/s?
Remember I'm not talking about what happens when it's halfway down the hill, just about it moving in the first place.
As for turning into the gutter, In this circumstance it's a dirt hill with nothing but trees. Instead, I now carry a brick!
Jumbo
26-07-2002, 07:55 AM
Make the switch to a Hydraulic hand brake... :D
They work great.. ;)
Wooders
26-07-2002, 08:01 AM
Jeff,
You've got it arse about.
Think high gear less engine rpm to wheel rpm right?
OK That means the wheel has MORE leverage the higher the gear.
IE the more likely it is to turn the engine.
graemlins/crying.gif graemlins/headspin.gif Head hurting graemlins/headspin.gif graemlins/crying.gif
Need more http://users.bigpond.net.au/jeff/beerchug.gif !
Sounds right though. Gonna find a hill & give it a test.
TheDoc
27-07-2002, 09:49 AM
I've seen no mention of a ground anchor... this would be particularly handy when you're parking in a neighbourhood with few trees.
My other suggestion would be to fit a whissle to the front bumper...once it starts rolling down the hill you'll hear her calling.
I find I have to manually adjust through drums every 6 months or so - works really well after each adjustment, when the handbrake level comes up higher than 2/3 I adjust again.
Right, I've now got the usual completely useless handbrake problem.
All this talk of manually adjusting...how? I park on a slight hill, handbrake on, rolled straight back down. Did absolutely nothing.
So how do I re-adjust it myself?
TheDoc
31-07-2002, 04:16 AM
I've got it.
Attach a rope between the hub and handbrake. Sling it over the roll bar. As the car starts to roll, the rope tensions, pulls the handbrake tighter, and car stops.
Hi,
It is normal for petrol motors to slowly roll under compression, diesels too just a lot slower. You are just relying on compression to hold. I have never had a car with zero leakage past the rings... by definition piston rings have a gap so compression WILL leak away and the Jeep roll as you describe as it overcomes each compression stroke.
Similar to Marcus I changed to rear disks from a falcon ( I did 1988 XF, Marcus did 1989 EA ) I slightly revised the mounting point for the Jeep handbrake cable to the ford caliper h/brake lever, I get a handbrake that works on any hill. I did fit slotted rotors at the same time... Locks wheels solid even on low range 1st hills. Unlike Jeep drums I get a handbrake that works and also same operation forwards and backwards . XF and EA falcon handbrake operates the pads on the caliper, doesn't have crappy little internal drum brake inside the rotor like most modern cars. I think ZJ disk rear uses little drums inside the rotors for a handbrake so it is not the same as Falcon.
Cheers
[ 31 July 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: dxj ]
Ben, on the bottom of the drums is an oval shaped plug. Lever this out, and the adjuster is inside. A flat screwdriver or similar can be used to turn the adjuster. Do it with handbrake off, adjust both up the same.
Can you do this with the wheels on? Otherwise I'll take it in to the dealer and they can do it under warrenty.
mattc
01-08-2002, 07:05 AM
Warranty? Don't count on it - if you've had your Jeep for a while they will probably call it service... even if it is the world's worst handbrake mechanism.
I had mine done again recently as part of the 36K service and found that is still working even a month later by resisting the temptation to just rip it on - I think that just makes things slip/stretch more quickly.
[ 01 August 2002, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: mattc ]
Yeah, do it with the wheels on - the access hole is on the inside (back) of the drum.
[ 01 August 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: PK ]
OzJeeper
01-08-2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by dxj:
falcon ( I did 1988 XF, Marcus did 1989 EA ) I slightly revised the mounting point for the Jeep handbrake cable to the ford caliper h/brake lever, I get a handbrake that works on any hill. I did fit slotted rotors at the same time... Locks wheels solid even on low range 1st hills. Cheers<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AH, THE OLD SLOTTED DISK TRICK!!!! A worthwhile upgrade!
[ 01 August 2002, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: OzJeeper ]
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