TJ Rear Disk Brakes

[damage_man98]

Looking seriosly into putting disk brakes on the rear of the TJ. Anyone got any info. I know there was a discussion on the old BB but I wasn't paying to much attention then.
Anyt info on that bolt on kit or any Idea as to where to get info on it?
I'm trying to get things sorted out within the next month hopefully as the brakes on the TJ are very worn now so I'm hoping not to have to replace them.

[Dale]

G'day Glenn,
About to look at doing the same thing. Now I have my garage I can't find enough things to do.

I'll keep you posted.

BTW, If you need brake parts, give Perth Brake parts a call. Much cheaper than anyone else normally.

[LEXX]

Check out the thread on the TJ section. GoJeep has just done this to his XJ and it seems to have gone pretty well. There is a link to his site aswell there so you check out how he did it.

I'm looking at doing this in the next few months so I'll let you guys know how it went.

[Gojeep]

Yep the link about it is at the bottom of this Forum page and in my signature.

[damage_man98]

Dale have you got phils phone number. Wouldn't mind getting some info from him. Good to here you got the garage now.

[Gordo]

Jumbo is a rear disc man - he luvs em. Try hassling him.

He even reckons his hand brake works now too !!

As if.......

[Jumbo]

Yup I got rear discs but not much help to you guys uless your planning on going to 5 on 5.5.. :D

Hey Gordo it does work I tells ya.. tongue.gif

[Gojeep]

Hey damage_man98, you do realize that you have the same rear diff as me and therefore the conversion using all Ford Falcon EA - EB parts will work for you as well :rolleyes:
I just did another conversion today to a '98 and he was very happy with the results and it all went well. If you gather all the parts and get them ready before hand it is an easy one day job to put it all on and drive away. :D
You can even buy the most of the parts new for far less than you would thick like new rotors $60 each ( slotted a bit more ) and brand new calipers were around $110 each I was told.

[Phil]

uh .. Marcus the TJ has a d44 in the rear not a 35c. But the drum brakes are the same, the stud pattern is the same, the biggest problem I had was the shortness of the hand brake cables.

[damage_man98]

Yeah might even look into buying all the parts new.
If I get a price I will post it here.
Atleast if I get all the parts new I know they are going to be good. When it comes to brakes I would rather pay the extra and make sure they are good.

[Phil]

Glen some of the prices are like $100/rotor and $150/caliper. If you drop into a wreckers and get all the gear you can get some really good stuff if you look, then decide if you need to get new bits. Check back with the Gojeep website it really is that easy.
cheers phil

[damage_man98]

yeah I have seen gojeeps site it is very helpfull. Its just a matter of me having the time and effort to find them at the wreckors. probably worth it though for the extra brake lines etc.

[Phil]

at the wreckers you'll get the caliper bracket and dust shield, bolts and studs so it is worth it.
.
.
.
Just to annoy ... saw a dana 60, 3.55 gears, 5 on 4.5 stud pattern with disc brakes from an inter /scout.. growing in a backyard. just needs a grinder and welder to make it fit a TJ (spring pads & trailing arm brackets) tongue.gif

[Gojeep]

Sorry guys I thought you had the same rear axle. :rolleyes:
There is also other things that will be different with your D44 as you have a retaining plate for the bearings so will have to work in with that. On this site: http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/ZJrearDiscsOnXJ/ZJrearDiscsOnXJ.htm he shows how to fit ZJ disks to your axle. That should help you with what you will be up against.
:D

[Gojeep]

I know why I thought that TJ's had the 35 as I am on a few American forums they mainly have the Dana 35 as their rear axle on TJ's and it is a optional extra to order one with a Dana 44!
They must have thought that Aussies are too tough on their axles and needed the 44 as standard! :rolleyes:

[Phil]

I know you'll bounce back with all the right ideas :D :D

[Gojeep]

Here is another write up I just found using ZJ disks on a 44!

http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/2002/08_aug/reardisc/index.html

[damage_man98]

Just an update
Went down to the wreckors to get my parts the other day. Told the guy what I needed and what I was doing.
Went in to pick them up and I seen that he had marked the axles as ED. I didn't say anything at the Time cause I wasn't too well so I'm just wondering if they are the same brake as of the EA? I'm sure he will replace them if they arn't. Looks to me like there is a diference in the caliper bracket.

any Idea's if they will fit or should I just swap them for EA?

[Steve]

Look forward to the updates Glenn. Something I'll do in the future as soon as all you guys make all the mistakes first! :D But before that I think I'll be needing the SYE and Driveshaft first. I'm very AFRAID that once the new gears are in I'll go apeshit like everyone else does and won't stop until I'm running 38's! graemlins/crying.gif

[damage_man98]

Just another question
Will have some time over the next couple of days to start the conversion but first things first.
How do I remove the drums? I'm not to machanicaly minded to if I can walk into the shed and know exactly which parts to remove first then it will save me thinking.
Thanks

[Dale]

Glenn,
removing the drums is a piece of p!ss.

Jack up JP stick on axle stands and remove wheel. Piss off the annoying funny little star washer thingies. Make sure JP isn''t going anywhere and release handbrake, just incase there is something wrong with your TJ and your handbrake actually works. Pull drums off. May require some gentle persausion(sp?) with a FBH.

There, easy done. Ring me if you have got any questions.

[Phil]

Glen , I'm not too up on ford models but as long as the calipers bolt to the bracket rather than sit on pins you should be ok, (pins sieze)best to email Marcus at gojeep for that info. also I went for the handbrake that operates the caliper piston and not a small set of drums inside the disc brake.
As far as drum removal you only need to jack one wheel at a time coz if you intend pulling the axle out to measure anything the diff fluid will stay in the diff. Same goes for fitting the brakes(one at a time). you can email me if you need to

[damage_man98]

I seen that marcus removed his axles. Is this necesary or will it make things easier?
The drum itself comes of very easy, its just all the rest of it that I'm not to sure about. Havn't had a look yet will do that when I get time so I'm sure I will figure it out.

[Phil]

To do anything with the brakes you will need to remove the axle there is a hole in the axle flange when you turn it it lines up with the retaining bolts undo these with a socket use Dale's BFH if required.Once all apart measure the diff flange and holes, thickness of the drum brake to make your spacer/retainers. Also to see how your discs will fit

[Phil]

To do anything with the brakes you will need to remove the axle there is a hole in the axle flange when you turn it it lines up with the retaining bolts undo these with a socket use Dale's BFH if required.Once all apart measure the diff flange and holes, thickness of the drum brake to make your spacer/retainers. Also to see how your discs will fit

[Gojeep]

You will have to remove the axles to remove the backing plate. Everything else can be taken off the backing plate first but the backing plate only has small hole so cannot fit over the axle flange which holds all the wheel studs.
The ED ( same as EB ) do run thinner disks but the calipers are still the same but thought that the brackets were pressed on but he made have given you a EA or EB ones. I just fitted a EB set with the thinner disks last week ( 13 mm verses 15 mm ) and he is very happy about it and it is still thicker than the ZJ rear disks at 11 mm.

[damage_man98]

Ok run into some big problems today.
The calliper mounting brackets don't fit ontp the axle.
At first i thought it was because of the parts he gave me so I went and seen him. He showed me some parts off an EA and they were the same. I even looked at some of an XF and they wouldn't fit either. The problem is they way the calliper bracket mounts to the axle. The four bolts that go into the axle housing don't match up. All the brackets that I have been shown all have the 4 bolts as the top 2 and bottom 2 being the same distace apart rather than the bottom 2 being further apart. The distance apart that they are is about 85 I think from memory.
Any Idea's or is ther anything I'm missing?

[Phil]

The ford caliper bracket must be redrilled to suit the jeep diff and a spacer retaining ring maufactured to replace the drum backing plate you have taken off.

[damage_man98]

ok that makes sense then. Nothing was mentioned on gojeep's site.
Phil can you check the dimension of you spacer and see if they match with Gojeep's.
let me know if its too much trouble.

[Phil]

Marcus is running a dana 35c slightly different to the 44
Just did a search on Rockcrawler and found:
http://www.stu-offroad.com/brakeconv/bc-1.htm
have a read , It might be easier to go this way for you graemlins/dunno.gif
as the spacers need to be machined up but the zj just need small alteration anyway have a read and let us know what you think tongue.gif

[damage_man98]

phil
Will just go for the EA I think. did you just weld up the original holes and redrill new holes.
The spacer you made is it 10mm think I will be able to figure the rest out.

[Phil]

Can't get under the jeep till weekend a carport is not the place to be wrenching at seven oclock at nite with this weather blowing up around your goolies. As far as the holes they were just redrilled as welding might distort the plate. The bleeder nipple on the caliper should be as high as possible when you're marking the holes. I also had the large hole in the backing plate enlarged so the axle bearing and seal slipped thru.

[damage_man98]

Not to important about the width. Does 10mm sound about right though.
Did the holes you drilled go half into the holes already there? Didn't creat any problems?

[Phil]

From memory (have to pull the brakes apart and do a "pic and scribble" of how they go together on the weekend)think it was about 5-6mm spacer and my holes didn't interfere with the originals.

[damage_man98]

if its not too much trouble that would be a big help.
If you have a digi camera can you take a few snaps.

Don't worry about it if its too much trouble I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually

[Phil]

Nah sorite mate ,, I can get hold of a digi for the weekend, people have been asking me for while about this and that and I've never had any documentation, about time I did, so I'll snap a few shots and do abit of a writeup and email it to you ..... kind of hard to explain in words without pics.

[dxj]

HI,

I have pics of my XJ rear disk parts and adaptors before assembly. If this is useful I can post them. Let me know if you wnat to see. They are XF with the pin mount caliper not recommended by Cody but have other advantages eg vented disk and easy handbrake cable conversion. Provided you clean up the caliper pins each time you replace pads they are no problem. Most brake shops don't do this so they jam.

Regards redrill falcon caliper mount.
I tilted mine up from the angle Ford use by about 15 degrees. Then I drilled four new holes in the custom spacer and falcon caliper mount. The four new holes ended up well clear of the falcon holes.
Used grade 8 bolts and cone lock nuts... same as ford to hold on. I also used a custom 2mm steel ring outside the alloy ford caliper mount to spread the load. I figured the mounting bolts will pull into the soft cast alloy of the ford bracket. On falcons they have a steel bearing retainer to do this.

I think the serious issue for D44 is to make sure your axle bearing is retained properly. If the D44 is not a "c" clip type axle, usually the brake backing plate also retains the bearing so spacer design is critical. On XJ D35 there is no bearing retainer so I just needed a simple machine alloy spacer.

[Gojeep]

Originally posted by damage_man98:
ok that makes sense then. Nothing was mentioned on gojeep's site.
Phil can you check the dimension of you spacer and see if they match with Gojeep's.
let me know if its too much trouble.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you better read the install page again as I do mention the fact that they need to be re-drilled and only one of the old EA holes was re-used. I do not know what the axle housing bolt pattern is on a Dana 44 as you might know all XJ's come with a Dana 35c.

I would be very intersted on how you go and take some pictures to help others or I can even write up a story on it for you crediting you of course. :rolleyes:
What is the distance from the front of the axle housing bracket ( what the drum backing plate bolted too )to the front face of the axle flange which the studs are pressed into? This is what determines the thickness of the spacer ( as also noted on my site ) so that the caliper is centered over the disk.

[damage_man98]

Apollogies Marcus. It was written there my mistake.
Its all making sence to me know. I went and had a play this arvo and I know exactly what need to be done now. I will get things done in stages I think. This Being the plan

1. I'm going to get the disk machined out to fit over the center flange rather than grinding and at the same time get the calliper bracked machined out to fit the bearing.
2. Put everthing on (withought bolts at this stage) and take measurment to center calliper over disks. This will give me the thinkness I need of the spacer.
3. Get spacer made and redrill holes in caliper bracket.
4. put it together.
5. Figure out brakelines.

I might start a new thread for the progress report
Will snap heaps of pics with the digi camera.
Thanks guys. You've all been a big help.

[Phil]

Glenn Just sent you an email on the brakes

[damage_man98]

Phil what type of file is a .sxw file?

[Phil]

sorry glen I've resaved the file as a pdf file and sent it again should be ok now .........
I hope :rolleyes:

[BenzSL600]

Excuse me if this a stupid question, but iz the stud pattern on the XJ the same as the TJ?

[dxj]

Hi,

Yes XJ and TJ come with same wheels. I run TJ steel wheels with mud tyres on my XJ. Road tyres on my my factory wheels.

[Gojeep]

Originally posted by BenzSL600:
Excuse me if this a stupid question, but iz the stud pattern on the XJ the same as the TJ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">TJ's and XJ's run a bolt pattern of 5 on 4.5" pcd the same as Ford and some Toyota's etc.
You only have to be careful with older Jeeps from the 80"s and eariler as they have a 5 on 5.5" pcd like F100's and Vitara's etc.

[Phil]

third time lucky Glen

[dxj]

Hi,

Just Booked an engineer to come at look at my rear disk conversion on the XJ for this Thursday.
He is going to give me an opinion and a certificate if all is okay.

Speaking to him on the phone he seemed to ask sensible questions about how it was done. Here is hoping all goes well. Will hate it if I have to go back to drums graemlins/crying.gif

Will let you guys know how it goes.

[damage_man98]

yeah I will be interested to see what he has to say. Keep us Posted

Just an update on mine aswell. At this stage everthing is pretty much ready to go on. All I have to do is drill the new holes and hook up the brake lines. Havn't got as far as thinking about the park brake yet but thats the easy part Anyways.

At this stage It has cost me $284 and I should need anything else now. heres a run down of the costs.
1. $150 complete brakes of an EB falcon including all brake lines and wheelstuds.
2. $40 machining of disks and calliper brackets.
3. $90 making of spacers. I got 4 spacers made 5mm think each. 2 spacers are made to fit over the bearing seal while the other 2 are smaller so they hold the seal in. The smaller 2 are cut in half.
4. $4 for new bolts for the axle housing

Hopefully they should all be on and working next week. I will do a full write up then

[MC4X4]

A GOOD REAR DISC BRAKE CONVERSION IS THE FORD EXPLORER. THEY BOLT UP AND HAVE INTERNAL DRUM BRAKES.I RUN A SET ON MY CJ7 AND IT PULLS UP GREAT

[Gojeep]

Originally posted by MC4X4:
A GOOD REAR DISC BRAKE CONVERSION IS THE FORD EXPLORER. THEY BOLT UP AND HAVE INTERNAL DRUM BRAKES.I RUN A SET ON MY CJ7 AND IT PULLS UP GREAT<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They dont bolt right up to a Tj as they are coil sprung rears and the Ford has Leafs. Even the XJ you have to cut off the leaf mounts as they are under the axle and not on top like the XJ and even the shock mounts must be changed over! :rolleyes: Thats hardly bolt on!

[MC4X4]

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BRAKES NOT THE WHOLE AXLE HOUSING.I DID SAY REAR BRAKE CONV. NOT REAR AXLE CONV.

[Gojeep]

Originally posted by MC4X4:
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BRAKES NOT THE WHOLE AXLE HOUSING.I DID SAY REAR BRAKE CONV. NOT REAR AXLE CONV.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry but didn't relized that thats what you were talking about as it is common in the states to fit the whole axle assembly to get the rear disks. :rolleyes:
Also you didn't have to SHOUT it by writing it in capitals! graemlins/soapbox.gif

[dxj]

Hi,

The whole reason I went to rear disks was to get rid of the drums, for both handbrake and service brake.

Maybe its just me, but I always end up with drums full of mud, crap, water etc etc.

The gunk results in zero rear braking effort and a wheels off clean out job after every off road trip. Bad scoring of the drums and fast lining wear as the gunk scuffs them out.

I fitted DBA slotted rotors so they self clean ( don't use cross drilled, they clag up with mud ) and XF calipers which have integral handbrake that operates on the pads and rotor. I worked out afterwards that you can probably use Jeep XJ front rotors on the rear with XF falcon rear calipers no problem to simplify the back-spacing a bit.

I find with disks I always have fully functioning service and hand brakes, even after water and mud use. Simple hose out and everything is clean as new too. Never need to dis-assemble. The only hang up on XF brakes is that it is highly advised to put a caliper overhaul kit ( $17.00) in whenever you replace pads. Most mechanics never do this.

Drums inside disk such as Exploder and most cars gives you a very small drum handbrake. Don't know how well exploder H/brake works but the XF disk handbrake on mine locks tight enough to stall the engine in low range first when yanked on hard, light-years better than the stock drums ( which are bigger than exploder handbrake).
Does the Exploder handbrake work better than stock Jeep?

If the exploder disks bolt straight up with no adaptors then probably a better/easier conversion.

Any ideas on how the Exploder brake balance works out,
ie on my XJ front/rear piston and rotor ( swept area) diameters are nearly identical to falcon XF so I have good brake balance. Similarly M/Cyl versus caliper pistons dia. is near identical match to falcon XF and is factory Jeep. So pedal travel is right.

The only balance/travel mis-match was the handbrake cable travel is half on Jeep compared to falcon. All I had to do was re-locate cable pull point on caliper handbrake lever to half-way to restore correct operation.

Have you got any photos or a web site with details of what was involved in the conversion?

[Gojeep]

Originally posted by dxj:
Hi,

I worked out afterwards that you can probably use Jeep XJ front rotors on the rear with XF falcon rear calipers no problem to simplify the back-spacing a bit.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only problem I can see with that idea Ron is that the XF rear disk is 286 mm and the XJ front is only 280 mm. :( You would have to try and offset the caliper bracket to compensate and then also check that there is enough braking surface area for the pads to run on if the caliper has been moved closer to the centre!
:confused:

Cheers. ;)

[dxj]

Thanks for that Marcus,

I had just placed my old XJ front next to my spare falcon XF rears and they looked so close it was hard to see that much difference.
Of course the verniers are always right so I think maybe 6mm dia diff will need some mounting changes.

[damage_man98]

Well Ran across a few problems in the conversion. Nothing serios though. Just meant more work. Heres a quit run down off what I did what went wrong and what should be done.

Well firstly I got the centers machined out of both disks and both calliper brackets to make them fit properly. The discs still needed a little more filing to make them fit as the hub flanges slightly over the last 4mm or so.
We drilled the new holes in the calliper brackets so the callipers would be at the back. Exactly the same as on the falcon. then whent to bolt it up and realised we would have to file flat the calliper bracket as it is raised in 1 spot.
went to put it all together and realised that the spacers I got made up where the wrong thicknes to get the bearing preload right so after some mucking around we decided the best way to get the bearing preload right was to use what was there in the first place to we got out the Oxy and cut the drum backing plate to make it fit. Finaly whent to put it together again and realised because of the extra spacing the disk was hiting the caliper bracket to we had to use the belt sander to reduce the thicknes of the spacers to make them fit.
Finaly got it all together blead the brakes. Very easy to do when you have the wright tools. I had a brake bleeding kit so it took me no more than 5min.
Tested it out and the front still locks up first but the difference in braking power is noticably stronger.
Will stall the jeep with the right fut to the floor in second gear no probs and thats with the rear wheels off the ground so the front brakes couldn't help at all.

Good upgrade to do.
I had the jeep in the shed for 4 weeks but it could easily be done in one day if you had all the parts ready to go.
Will do a proper write up later.

[Phil]

Sounds good Glen how did the hand brake go?

[dxj]

Hi again,

Congrats Damage_man98 on the new brakes.

I have just got the last fo the paperwork together for mine to be approved here in NSW.

Got eng certificate and blue slip inspection done. Just need NSW RTA stamp on the papers now and I have legal rear disks :D