View Full Version : Fuel Bar
aus-kj
12-12-2007, 10:09 PM
Looking for a few comments on my design for a "Fuel Bar" that i'm considering making for my KJ.
The idea is that it's removable, to be used for longer treks only. It is supposed to Carry 4 jerry cans either side of the spare wheel which is mounted on the rear door.
It plugs in to the reece hitch on the tow bar and also bolts onto either side of the tow bar mount under the bumper.
The bar will cover the existing tail lights so I will have to put new lights on the bar which can just plug into the trailer plug...
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=111534
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=111539
MJunk
13-12-2007, 12:36 AM
Google Sketchup? Looks pretty good. Will you take off the stock bumper to use it?
-MJunk
aus-kj
13-12-2007, 08:23 AM
Google Sketchup? Looks pretty good. Will you take off the stock bumper to use it?
-MJunk
No it sits to the rear of the bumper.
Brisey
13-12-2007, 10:11 AM
That looks good will be interested to see the finished article.
Cheers
Bri
cmohr
13-12-2007, 11:21 AM
Keep us all posted Chris, looks like a fine idea. Very interested in the fact it doesnot replace the rear and is removable, good idea. Simple set of those removable boat trailer lights you can get from supercheap and your away.
You may have to go for Polyairs in the back to help keep the rear up though, 80 letres of exrta fuel (double capacity) is going to weigh a lot. and having it so far back is also going to cause it to counter balance the car to the rear. Just food for thought. I had 4 jerries in the back of mine thru SA last year and she sagged heaps in the rear.
krankieone
13-12-2007, 03:19 PM
100 od kg's right at back of vehicle will require some mods to compensate for it however a great idea
Lachlan
04-01-2008, 08:08 PM
It might be worth investigating adjustable air shocks. I'm running a set on my CJ5, and they're completely adjustable from the rear as you would a bike tyre. It'd allow you to beef up the rear end with miminal fuss, and you could easily reset the shocks when you're done.
there is a motorbike carrier works on the same pricipal it might be worth looking at that as a start or some design pointsthey are advertised in adb mag from time to time
grand jg
05-01-2008, 08:43 AM
the idea is good, should work quite well, it would acuatly be quite a simple job to do i think, if you have access to a fabrication shop that is...
aus-kj
05-01-2008, 05:11 PM
Looks Like I should be able to get it done at a mates metal fab shop for cost of materials. :-)
I hadn't been thinking of the effect of the weight as having loaded it up for camping B4 it did not sag much nut then I didn't have 80+kg on the back. i think i'll build it load it up and see what happens. Might just put some coil spacers in to lift it back up for the duration of the trip. being the rear it would be real easy to take the spacers out as the load lightens. Or would that just trash the coils before there time?
krankieone
05-01-2008, 10:09 PM
How about some polyair bags
indertdxj
07-01-2008, 04:49 PM
I reckon ou could do airbags for under $500
wheeliebin
07-01-2008, 05:02 PM
I ordered my airbags from US and paid ~$295USD delivered to my door.
They've worked really well for me.
cmohr
07-01-2008, 05:03 PM
Coil packers would lift it up, but, they would not compensate for the extra weight, so the coils would be more prone to overcompression which is the real killer of coil springs. The air adjustable shockies sound like a real good idea, I have been thinking about them myself for touring holding up the weight, and, then when I'm just 4x4ing put my pro-comps back in for the articulation.
What brand Air adjustables are you using Lachlan????
indertdxj
07-01-2008, 05:16 PM
I ordered my airbags from US and paid ~$295USD delivered to my door.
They've worked really well for me.
I paid $300 plus am doing Onboard air, solenoids gauges etc...around $500.
See the start of my write up in the Buil up thread.
krankieone
07-01-2008, 05:24 PM
Where do shocks mount onto the body of a KJ ?Generally mounting air shocks on to sheetmetal is not a good idea they can punch through in some vehicles
indertdxj
07-01-2008, 05:25 PM
I agree Krankieone...
Lachlan
07-01-2008, 07:31 PM
I would assume that mine are Monroe shocks, cos Dad got em about 15 years ago, and he never buys anything else. As for the mounting of them, I wouldn't have thought that air shocks were any worse than gas shocks... they're still carrying the same weight, and it should only depend on how high a pressure you want to run them on. You should probably check whether they're suited for the KJ though, since I've only seen them mounted to a chassis.
krankieone
07-01-2008, 09:28 PM
. As for the mounting of them, I wouldn't have thought that air shocks were any worse than gas shocks... they're still carrying the same weight, .
The problem occurs as the mounting point for the shock is not designed to carry the weight of the vehicle it was disigned to be carried by the spring perch which usually has a subframe to distibute the forces/load to the body the shock mearly dampens the movement.
I have seen several cars with air shocks with cracks around the shock mounts and a couple that have punched right through .
Lachlan
07-01-2008, 09:57 PM
My understanding is that air shocks are used in conjunction with the springs, not in the place of. The weight of the vehicle is still supported by the springs, but by using air shocks instead of gas shocks you can adjust the pressure of the shocks, hence hardening the rear suspension, if marginally, to compensate for the added weight of the fuel cans on the back.
aus-kj
07-01-2008, 10:35 PM
The idea of air shocks sounds good but considering most of my trip will be gravel roads and offtrack. I'd be a bit unsure of how they would last and what they may do to the unibody.
I think air bags might be a goer.
Can you use an external air compressor with air bags or do you have to have on board compressor hooked up ?
$292 from http://www.4x4store.com.au/Polyair-Red-Series-Air-Springs-to-suit-Jeep-Cherokee-KJ-9-01-05-pr-221066.html with free delivery. anyone know if they are ok for a 2006 KJ ?
Lachlan
08-01-2008, 08:20 AM
My only other thought is that air springs are designed to replace the springs, but if you use them on the KJ you'll be replacing the spring and the shock. Dunno if that's bad or not, but keep it in mind. I've had my shockies on gravel for just about forever... before I started fixing it the CJ was a farm runabout, so I think you'll be right on gravel.
smorison
08-01-2008, 08:25 AM
hey cjthuys,
Nice design, i'm sick of carrying jerrys in the cabin. never been comfortable with it, even if they are all strapped down.
will the "swings" clear the door at full open? maybe worth while putting some sort of rubber block on it so it doesn't damage the paint.
nice work :)
aus-kj
08-01-2008, 08:48 AM
My only other thought is that air springs are designed to replace the springs, but if you use them on the KJ you'll be replacing the spring and the shock. Dunno if that's bad or not, but keep it in mind. I've had my shockies on gravel for just about forever... before I started fixing it the CJ was a farm runabout, so I think you'll be right on gravel.
Polyairs for the KJ sit inside the existing spring so they don't replace anything. I can use my existing springs and shockies. ;)
hey cjthuys,
Nice design, i'm sick of carrying jerrys in the cabin. never been comfortable with it, even if they are all strapped down.
will the "swings" clear the door at full open? maybe worth while putting some sort of rubber block on it so it doesn't damage the paint.
nice work :)
I was thinking of using some gas struts to hold them open and also provide some pressure to hold it closed and also put a stopper on it to prevent it opening to far. Also thought of gluing foam or rubber on the back of the jerry can holders so that if the door does open before the swing arms are out of the way it won't damage the paint.
smorison
08-01-2008, 10:41 AM
sounds like you've already thought it through ;)
can't wait to see the finished product
Lachlan
08-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Yeh, sounds like you're set! :D
Now we just need some pics to complement the planning :p
Nice work so far.
turbomart
08-01-2008, 03:19 PM
Pump up shocks do put a lot of extra strain on the mounts, if you pump them up to compensate for an extra 100kgs for example ,then thats how much extra weight is put on the mounts.
Airbags (polyair etc.) are designed to fit inside the existing springs (coils) so the extra weight is supported by the original spring mounts which are designed to handle it.
Both systems can be pumped up using an ordinary tyre valve, ie at the servo.
Gojeep
08-01-2008, 04:01 PM
I hated the air shocks I have tried over the years for the mentioned problems and also that that really noticeably reduced my wheel travel. They are nothing but a band aid.
smorison
09-01-2008, 07:02 AM
sounds like polyairs are the way to go.
cmohr
31-01-2008, 04:49 PM
Hey cjthuys, any progress with the bar???? ;)
aus-kj
01-02-2008, 02:35 PM
Hey cjthuys, any progress with the bar???? ;)
No progress yet just waiting for the guy who is actually going to construct it to get some time to look at it.
junglejuice
10-02-2008, 03:15 PM
Air shocks are rubbish, they put for more strain on the mounts then they are designed for as they take more load when you increase the air pressure, the more pressure the more load. On top of this the ride will turn to crap which is why you almost never see them any more...
aus-kj
12-05-2008, 02:31 PM
Well my mates mate has finally finished making my fuel bar for me.
Took a few shots after fitting it. :D
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117021&g2_serialNumber=2
Main bar is made of 3mm wall tube.with side connectors made from 8mm plate. 10mm plate for the swing arms.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=116989&g2_serialNumber=2
It still needs some pins to keep it in the open position. Open tube at the bottom is still large enough to get the snatch strap in and put the pin through it so I can still recover off the tow bar. I have lost a bit of ground clearance but this is just for touring and should not be missed.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=116981&g2_serialNumber=2
I have just received a set of LED top/tail/indicator lights that have to be put on as the Jerry cans obscure the rear tail lights.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117025&g2_serialNumber=2
Nice tight fit for the Jerry cans. They were full and had to push the second one in. Not too sure if thats good or bad. Some hoops are welded to each side to strap the cans in
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=116985&g2_serialNumber=2
Trailer hubs for hinges.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=116993&g2_serialNumber=2
Close up of catches. Same ones Steve F used for his rear bar.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117001&g2_serialNumber=2
Rear view of swing arm. Main support is 20mm flat bar.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117005&g2_serialNumber=2
Jerry holder. A bit if over kill here. Needs a few holes drilled in it for drainage.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117013&g2_serialNumber=2
Shot of attachment point to tow bar. These are not designed as load carrying. Load is supported by tow hitch. This just stops the bar from moving around in the hitch. A thread was tapped into the tow bar for the bolts.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117017&g2_serialNumber=2
all the weight is supportted here just need to ream out the hole for the pin as we didn't manage to get it in the right spot.
http://www.aussiejeepimages.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=117009&g2_serialNumber=2
cmohr
12-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Looking great, when can I have mine???? :lol:
This is realy a good idea, It doubles your travel range, I can't remember, you ended up putting the Polyairs in the back did you???
aus-kj
12-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Looking great, when can I have mine???? :lol:
This is realy a good idea, It doubles your travel range, I can't remember, you ended up putting the Polyairs in the back did you???
No polyairs. I'm not sure what I'll be doing yet. I'm hopping to load it up and see what happens. I'll probably put packers in as I will not be using this very often. Depends on what the springs look like when fully loaded.
cmohr
12-05-2008, 04:27 PM
OOooooo..
Just remember thats 100kg extra weight out there on the back way past the rear wheels, you are going to get a bouncy "boat" affect driving along. See how you go, but, don't risk it too much. The more weight on the rear, counterweighing whats already over the front, will give you reduced handling and steering, that will effect both cornering and braking.
I'm Not being the harpenger of doom, I just want you and your loved ones back home safe from your trips.
cmohr
aus-kj
12-05-2008, 05:40 PM
OOooooo..
Just remember thats 100kg extra weight out there on the back way past the rear wheels, you are going to get a bouncy "boat" affect driving along. See how you go, but, don't risk it too much. The more weight on the rear, counterweighing whats already over the front, will give you reduced handling and steering, that will effect both cornering and braking.
I'm Not being the harpenger of doom, I just want you and your loved ones back home safe from your trips.
cmohr
What about a set of CRDSTU's HD coils what sort of cost are they ?
cmohr
12-05-2008, 06:07 PM
What about a set of CRDSTU's HD coils what sort of cost are they ?
Yep that would certainly be a step in the right direction, even with my kj fully laiden I still have around 4in's clearence from the top of the tyre to the underside of the rear flare, they are good for carring weight, but, I always have weight in the back, I don't know what they would be like unlaiden., between 250 and 300 dollars. Hold up weight, still articulate.
Thats where the polyairs adjustablity comes in. If you don't have anything in the back, you let em down.
Fouros
12-05-2008, 06:15 PM
looking the goods mate
what you going to retail them for
aus-kj
13-05-2008, 10:03 AM
looking the goods mate
what you going to retail them for
Love to make some money out of them but there would never be the demand to bother.
It only cost me $160 which was the cost of the axle stubs and hubs plus the cost of the Eberhard latches.
cmohr
13-05-2008, 10:31 AM
Crikey....for $160.00 you can't go wrong ;)
mikey
13-05-2008, 11:23 AM
Really good looking fab on that setup.
I'd love to see a profile shot of the KJ with that rig on.
Cheers,
M.
palla
13-05-2008, 09:49 PM
Just caught up on the latest here Chris, mate that looks great!!!! After you do your trek would you hire it out for a long weekend?? Me thinks I should come around again for a look see. Good work. I can bring round that all weather plug so you can wire up a number plate light. Think I even got an LED number plate light here somewhere.
aus-kj
14-05-2008, 01:25 PM
Just caught up on the latest here Chris, mate that looks great!!!! After you do your trek would you hire it out for a long weekend?? Me thinks I should come around again for a look see. Good work. I can bring round that all weather plug so you can wire up a number plate light. Think I even got an LED number plate light here somewhere.
Sounds like a great idea Palla. Pick a day as long as it's a Sunday.
Been thinking about one of these next...
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n233/bargewater/flatdeck010.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n233/bargewater/flatdeck008.jpg
cmohr
14-05-2008, 01:35 PM
Hmmmmm.... Interesting
mikey
14-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Looks like you could sleep quite happily in the back there.
M.
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