Diagnostic Software

[Rebsoiler04]

Did a search but didnt find anything specific.

Anybody tried the TOAD software. Sounds like a good thing. Gets good reviews and not too spendy either.

totalcardiagnostics.com/toad

[fester]

It looks good at the new discounted price but I am not convinced that it works on our car. It kind of implies that it will amongst the listings for say Europe but with a cut off date of 1 jan 04 which is a bit tight. Also refers to being fully OBD2 compliant and if not then definately OBD1 with different plugs. We have OBD2 plug but we are definately not OBD2 compliant, at least not fully. Unless they can guarantee for you the only way to find out is suck it and see.

[JamesLaugesen]

Never seen it myself, but the information on their site is vague.
I suspect it'd only be useful as a standard OBD2 reader for our Jeeps; unable to read codes from modules other than the "ECM" (non-ODB codes, like from airbag module, TCM, FDCM, etc.), and almost certainly unable to program modules out of the box (shift points, timing, etc.), especially using a typical ELM327 without swapping pins in the ODB2 connector.

A lot of the tech info needed to do that 'tricky' stuff on the Chrysler and Merc. modules is only available via licensed developer programs, which aren't cheap. Developers who've gone to that much trouble usually make a point of it (AutoEnginuity, Superchips, etc.).

So I'm dubious. Would love to be proven wrong though

[Escapable]

Most of the advanced programmers for Jeeps use the OBD connector but the pins for the CCD system and not via the OBD port.
The OBD port is limited as to what info you can obtain via it however the CCD bus goes to every module in the vehicle.

[JamesLaugesen]

Originally Posted by Escapable

Most of the advanced programmers for Jeeps use the OBD connector but the pins for the CCD system and not via the OBD port.
The OBD port is limited as to what info you can obtain via it however the CCD bus goes to every module in the vehicle.

Mmm sort of. It's changed between models (CCD, then PCI, now CAN.).
OBDII messages can be exchanged over many protocols, so the diagnostic CAN circuit is used for OBD messages now.

One reason that "OBD-compliant" devices are limited is that OBD is a set of standard diagnostic data which manufacturers are required to implement.
A developer of an OBD scanner or software knows that an "OBD-compliant" vehicle will respond to OBD message requests, since it's required-to.
The stuff that' must be reported via OBD messages is a tiny fraction of the total communications.

The majority of stuff happening is proprietary (the manufacturers are not required to make the data openly available.).
A lot of the proprietary data is still exchanged as OBD-formed messages (since it's easier than implementing a whole new layer just for the sake of it.) - It's just that the PIDs are unknown and some can be difficult to trace and reverse engineer.

A scanner which reads OBD2 codes via the CAN-bus is physically capable of reading "more" information, if the software is aware of the proprietary IDs (ie, Scangauge X-Gauges.).
Some IDs can be found by guessing, googling or spying on CAN-bus messages, some databases have been leaked, and the most complete databases are available for a price (usually via developer programmes with manufacturers or partners.).

Additionally most CAN-bus systems operate multiple circuits (late model Chryslers have B and C.), which can (sort of.) be accessed by switching/patching pins on the OBD connector (or with a device which is physically able to read all circuits.).

And then there's the SCI which has been on all Chryslers for a long time, and is still use low level operations or recovering the CAN. I believe fuel maps and timing are still written over the SCI.

[Escapable]

Originally Posted by JamesLaugesen

Mmm sort of. It's changed between models (CCD, then PCI, now CAN.).
OBDII messages can be exchanged over many protocols, so the diagnostic CAN circuit is used for OBD messages now.
etc, etc ...clip .....

Do NOT confuse the CCD bus with a CAN or earlier (all OBD) bus .. the CCD bus is specific to Chrysler vehicles and runs throughout the vehicle to ALL modules whereas the CAN system is a communications protocol for the OBD system controlled by the ECU.
The ECU allows all information over this CCD bus (and it appears on the OBD connector regardless of what variety of communications bus (CAN, J whatever or earlier versions) on pins unused by the OBD scanners.
Just to clarify .. if you know the codes and can decode from the CCD bus (this is not that hard) you can do anything .. the Starscan just makes it easy to do and it is limited by the software it runs (purposely), but can do all if the codes are input.

[JamesLaugesen]

Originally Posted by Escapable

Do NOT confuse the CCD bus with a CAN or earlier (all OBD) bus .. the CCD bus is specific to Chrysler vehicles and runs throughout the vehicle to ALL modules whereas the CAN system is a communications protocol for the OBD system controlled by the ECU.
The ECU allows all information over this CCD bus (and it appears on the OBD connector regardless of what variety of communications bus (CAN, J whatever or earlier versions) on pins unused by the OBD scanners.
Just to clarify .. if you know the codes and can decode from the CCD bus (this is not that hard) you can do anything .. the Starscan just makes it easy to do and it is limited by the software it runs (purposely), but can do all if the codes are input.

So CCD is still on modern CANbus-equipped Chrysler vehicles? Which pins at the OBD port (or any module) is it using?

If you're correct I'd be very happy... but I've never seen it on any schematics and find it hard to believe Chrysler have included drivers for both CANbus and CCD in every module.
All modern Chryslers have all major modules on the CANbus network (that's the whole point.), my understanding was that Chrysler used it for all multiplex communication since CANbus was allowed in OBDII (instead of having the extra cost of two busses.).