Is this the end?........

[dru]

Can only agree with having a poor experience with the FCA dealership network. Not 100% crap, but inconsistent and when you get they wrong place it is really bad. Getting warranty issues sorted is a mixed bag, this involves FCA as well as the dealerships, but they are improving. I had an engine replace at then end of the warranty. Getting there was all anxiety, but they came good. Got to give kudos where it's due.

Still I wont let a Fiat maniac near the JK if I can help it. I also can't see myself ever owning a different brand of 4WD.

China is a different story. If you have western product set up in China with western quality control, the results can be perfection. If you rely on the Chinese systems results can be very scatty.

In this case it would be Chinese factory Chinese development, Chinese quality control, ultimately targeting a Chinese market. They are getting much better at this stuff but it is not comfort inspiring. So far the Great Wall product we see seems to be el cheapo and designed to the lowest common denominator.

Long run problems are more about future design staying true to the heritage. That is a problem for me.

[Classic Boy]

Originally Posted by Benn0

If you have a look at the JD Power issues, the majority were DEF issues (not a problem here) uconnect issues (oh no my usb port isn't working) and the Cherokee's 9 speed, which also affected Landrover and Honda.

You selectively quote articles to suit you argument, but then accuse me of doing that?

Then you claim the problems reported to JD power by tens of thousands of owners are just minor and don't really count. Yet other makes must live with the same reporting standard but miraculously they can achieve a better reliability and customer satisfaction.

All recalls are safety related issues and to be proud of Jeep because they don't actually hold the record as reported but are second worst at recalls is frankly bizarre.
A car should not achieve the distinction of having any recalls, full stop! Not having repeated recalls!

It suggest underdone engineering, poor testing and it smacks of delivering to market a beta product that can have its bugs worked out by the owners banging their heads against the dealers.

FCA is clearly a disinterested owner because if Jeep were really the jewel in the crown why is the jeep business actually on the auction block?
It is more of the same, merely a continuing pattern of disinterested owners of Chrysler Corp over the last 10 plus years, most of these short term suitors clearly disinterested in improving the Chrysler products because the company gets sold off again. Hardly a recipe of motivated employees and retaining the best R&D people. Quite frankly is is really amazing they can make a car that doesn't breakdown before leaving the dealer lot.

Back to my original point I cannot see how a chinese car company can do a worse job than what FCA has been doing and it will likely actually improve the product, given the Chinese are more longterm in their thinking and planning and they will not likely give up easily and sell it of again to another disinterested owner. They will likely use it as a serious beachhead back into western markets.

[Benn0]

Originally Posted by photojeep

Nope. Remember we already have a Toyota 4x4 and we have had no factory issues for 8+ years. The Toyo has lived up to reliability expectations 100% It is never driven as a daily driver, and neither would a Jeep if we land up with one. It's an outback trip vehicle.

Yes, that is your case, but 50% of owners are having a different experience,a s per the stats. If you were one of those owners, depending on how bad the issue was, your experience may not live up to the reliable reputation.

It's a similar story with Jeep owners, but they likely aren't buying with that expectation of high reliability.

[Benn0]

Originally Posted by Classic Boy

You selectively quote articles to suit you argument, but then accuse me of doing that?

Then you claim the problems reported to JD power by tens of thousands of owners are just minor and don't really count. Yet other makes must live with the same reporting standard but miraculously they can achieve a better reliability and customer satisfaction.

All recalls are safety related issues and to be proud of Jeep because they don't actually hold the record as reported but are second worst at recalls is frankly bizarre.
A car should not achieve the distinction of having any recalls, full stop! Not having repeated recalls!

It suggest underdone engineering, poor testing and it smacks of delivering to market a beta product that can have its bugs worked out by the owners banging their heads against the dealers.

FCA is clearly a disinterested owner because if Jeep were really the jewel in the crown why is the jeep business actually on the auction block?
It is more of the same, merely a continuing pattern of disinterested owners of Chrysler Corp over the last 10 plus years, most of these short term suitors clearly disinterested in improving the Chrysler products because the company gets sold off again. Hardly a recipe of motivated employees and retaining the best R&D people. Quite frankly is is really amazing they can make a car that doesn't breakdown before leaving the dealer lot.

Back to my original point I cannot see how a chinese car company can do a worse job than what FCA has been doing and it will likely actually improve the product, given the Chinese are more longterm in their thinking and planning and they will not likely give up easily and sell it of again to another disinterested owner. They will likely use it as a serious beachhead back into western markets.

You seem to be getting confused in following the line of reasoning in the discussion.

You pointed to discussions with owners as proof other car make owners are happy and the number of recalls as proof that FCA are the worst: Speak to most Hyundai, Kia, Toyota owners and they are very happy with the reliability and durability of their cars, that don't need to be recalled all the time and don't do mysterious faults either.

I point to the fact that some of these owners aren't happy and give examples of such and you come back with:
We can all find 'mates' that have a good or bad run with any specific maker model, all anecdotal "evidence".

Well yeah, that's my point, yet you rely on this in your argument and refuse to adjust your position.

I point to the fact that the Jeep recalls are minor, while other makers avoid making serious recalls, ie. recalls counts are not relevant. Your response is:

recalls are a good guide to build quality and design robustness and Jeep now have a market leading position with recalls, record setting in fact and then link to the article. I point out the article is incorrect, direct you to the actual stats that show that Mercedes, toyota and mitsubishi have similar numbers of recalls. You do understand the relevance of this? You claim high numbers or recalls indicate poor quality and reliability, while at the same time claiming:

Hyundai, KiA, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan are much better at customer support and warranty obligations, and quite frankly they build better more reliable cars

Do you see the problem with your claims about indicators for whether a car maker is good or bad? Will you address this inconsistency? I doubt it, but lets keep going.

You point to JD Power and Consumer Reports as an indicator that Jeep is the worst, as I've pointed out a lot of those problems are either US centric or minor. I agree the Cherokee 9 speed issues were major, its a new gear box and its issues are affecting other car makers using this trans. But look at the local survey, the Jeep stats are similar to the rest, it isn't sticking out as the worst. But you will ignore that too, and keep doing what you claim is really bad:

You selectively quote articles to suit you argument

This is fun, give me another one!

[Benn0]

Originally Posted by KJ75

I love my 2006 Jeep KJ 2.8 CRD (bought in 2015) but for 2 years I have been fixing stupid issues that are clearly design issues, and should have had recalls. This was also a Jeep that was dealer serviced for 9 years, so it was looked after.

What do I think of Jeeps ?
They are great, as long as you are prepared to work on them (a lot in some cases). Once they work, they are great, and also value for money.

Would I advise my family to buy one ?
Absolutely no way, as they are not mechanical experienced (and I have my hands full with 1 Jeep already).

However I still love my Cherokee KJ, even with all their stupid quirks.

The way I see it, Jeeps can't get any worse and the Chinese with deep pockets, might turn things around. Seems to have worked for Volvo.

An 06 car is always going to need a bit of work, my cruiser was giving me plenty of problems, such as the fuel injector pipe design issue. An 06 prado is just as likely to have injector problems, a well known design issue that toyota refused to take responsibility for, and that one can be expensive. Patrols of that vintage had the hand grenade diesel, the navara had its issues, you can think of just about any 10 year old car with its design problems.

I have no problem recommending a new Jeep to people, but these things have a lot of electronics and a lot of complex systems in them that are going to be expensive as they age. Some 4wd makers like toyota, mitsubishi and isuzu lag on the innovation front and their products are going to be simpler and cheaper to maintain longer term, but then you miss out on the benefits of the modern stuff, which is ok, but some people like their bells and whistles.

I don't think I'd be holding onto a WK2 10 years on, but maybe it will surprise me, I'll see when stuff starts breaking. The cruiser just got too expensive to keep on the road, and it handled like a pig.

[SJetc]

Well since the original story appears to be defunct and therefore pointless to discuss, I read with interest today that FCA are in early-stage talks with VW on a joint project to produce a 'light utility vehicle'. The report has come out of Hamburg but is being widely reported on.

Light Utility Vehicle partnership first... perhaps something bigger in the future.

FCA stock price has continued to rise - currently sitting at the US$15 mark. Interesting times.

[Tog]

I hear that Chinese car builder Great Wall is trying to buy jeep

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk