Civilian Owned Firearms, what do we think?

[Wombat756]

Originally Posted by GariJ

Whitemeat I am more than happy to field any question that’s what makes this a healthy debate and an excellent thread. As I am sure you and most of the hunting community are aware I went through nothing to purchase the bow. I even had it shipped by Fed Ex and Australia post from overseas with its ammunition. In fact the only issue with its import was the wood it was made from lol.

I most certainly agree with you to a point, the bow is a weapon. And I mean that in the strictest sense of the word. By its design it was created to inflict damage. The point at which I disagree with you is the “considered a “weapon” just like a firearm” statement. There is a vast contrast between bows and guns and to a lesser extent bows and crossbows with respect to their lethality.

This is largely a function of projectile velocity I think the highest poundcrossbows fire a quarrel at about 600fps while big draw weight compound bows are around the 450fps mark. Some major league baseball players can pitch at 150fps that would be equivalent to say a 45lbs bow. The average bows used for deer are about 200 fps so you can see they really aren’t similar to guns in that respect. I think the average .308 rifle fires a round at about 2800fps so not really the same thing.

I also believe that’s bows are so culturally accepted and thus un regulated because they predate written history and have for the last 200 years been used solely for hunting.

When hunting deer I have to get within 10m to ensure a kill 15m to wound and chase. And this is hunting with an 80lbs recurve. With the 110lbs longbow I might be able to get the same animal from maybe 25-30m. What could you shoot the same deer at? 400-500m? So again the lethality is very different. Regarding rates of fire I reckon I could get off maybe three well aimed arrows at a 50m target in a minute. Maybe 8-10 with zero accuracy with either bow before my shoulder and arms are done for the next few minutes.

Anyone can pick up your rifle even a child and fire it increasing its lethality. If and child could draw either of my bows I would awe struck. I’m impressed when a full grown man can draw either of them.

Cross bows are regulated because they are concealable and store their energy in a similar way to a gun. Thus a gun and cross bow can be discharged unintentionally a bow obviously needs to be drawn and released by the user. This combined with its low lethality and cultural acceptance make them unrestricted in my opinion although I’m sure most of you will disagree.

Yes they are dangerous but by comparison they aren’t really in the same ball park.

Having said all that I do believe compound bows should have some form of regulation due to their increased lethality. And I also believe that cross bows should be regulated just like low powered firearms. But the last thing I want is to turn this into a guns vs bows debate. I’m more than happy for people to use guns for sport as long as it’s strictly regulated. I don’t because for me the health benefits of owning a firearm don’t out way the health risks.

While I have no problem with bows (nor with guns) your comparison of speed of projectile conveniently ignores the projectile weight. The average .223 round has a projectile weight of around 50 grains (I have 45 and 55 in my safe). An arrow would be many times heavier than this. The energy delivered to the intended target with a bow wouldn't be that far behind the energy delivered by my .223, and would be vastly more than my .22

[Rock God]

Here you go AR15 mount for your JK.

[GariJ]

Originally Posted by Wombat756

While I have no problem with bows (nor with guns) your comparison of speed of projectile conveniently ignores the projectile weight. The average .223 round has a projectile weight of around 50 grains (I have 45 and 55 in my safe). An arrow would be many times heavier than this. The energy delivered to the intended target with a bow wouldn't be that far behind the energy delivered by my .223, and would be vastly more than my .22

OH PLEASE. The arrow wouldnt even be comparable traveling at such low speeds it wound need to weight 100's more. Thats why so much effort is put into making high pound bows not heavy arrows lol. Give me a tick I will have a go at doing the numbers.

[layback40]

Originally Posted by aido_3927

Jesus, sorry to hear that mate, that's awful. Did the offender/s receive any kind of legal punishment or anything?

He got to watch me put the angle grinder through his beloved DB shotgun.

[WhiteMeat]

GariJ - Just had a thought, you mentioned that you don't mind controls over bows and that's fair enough if that's is how you feel, but, have a close look as to what sporting shooters have gone through & what we are going through, and you can bet that this is the future heading for all forms of hunting in Australia if the anti hunting activists get their way - the fishers have already felt the pinch but not as badly as the shooters - by supporting more restrictions, you're dooming your recreational bowhunting

[aido_3927]

Originally Posted by Wombat756

While I have no problem with bows (nor with guns) your comparison of speed of projectile conveniently ignores the projectile weight. The average .223 round has a projectile weight of around 50 grains (I have 45 and 55 in my safe). An arrow would be many times heavier than this. The energy delivered to the intended target with a bow wouldn't be that far behind the energy delivered by my .223, and would be vastly more than my .22

Originally Posted by GariJ

OH PLEASE. The arrow wouldnt even be comparable traveling at such low speeds it wound need to weight 100's more. Thats why so much effort is put into making high pound bows not heavy arrows lol. Give me a tick I will have a go at doing the numbers.

The way you're thinking is on the right track Wombat but I went and grabbed some stats off a couple sites for comparison.

Chuck Hawks:
The standard velocity .22 Long Rifle takes a wax coated 40 grain RN lead bullet to a muzzle velocity of 1,138 fps. The muzzle energy is 116 ft. lbs. in a standard 22" rifle test barrel. The 40 grain .22 LR bullet has a sectional density (SD) of .216. This is a widely used and economical practice load, excellent for plinking.

Huntersfriend:
Kinetic energy of an arrow can be found by using the formula KE=(mv²)/450,240 where m is the mass of the arrow in grains and v is the velocity of the arrow in fps. The 450,240 just sorts out all the units and converts things from fps & grains to ft-lbs. So if your new bow setup ultimately shoots a 400 grain arrow at a respectable 250 fps, your actual kinetic energy or "knock down power" will be:
KE=(mv²)/450,240
KE=[(400)(250²)]/450,240 KE=25,000,000/450,240
KE=55.53 ft-lbs

The difference with bows is that they have far more momentum behind the arrows, a 22 will have a very hard time killing a deer but a 600 grain arrow with about 60-70 odd ft-lbs should take one down without much of a problem.

NB: this is my understanding, happy to be corrected.

[yumpet]

wow that's what you call a loaded question!!!

(every pun intended)


The one thing i always come back to is the fact the people who have guns, don't care if you don't, its only the people who don't have guns that care about the people who do.

I have 7 rifles, all locked away - you know what i've never shot anything moving with them. I shoot paper, is that a bad thing? its a sport, obviously this thread was just meant to troll us all and it works