Purchased Modified JK - Engineering Cert?

[uberlucas]

Originally Posted by alexbrown64

Been going through the same thing with my XJ. Take a look at VSB14 and NCOP 11 (national code of practice). The general rule of thumb is you can raise your roof height 2" (50mm) with a combination of lift and tyres without engineering. You can have a maximum of 2" larger tyre size than what is the largest maximum on your tyre placard.
Generally, if you go over the 2" higher roof height, you will need engineering approval for this, and it could involve a lane change test.

So, you can get all your mods approved, lift height and tyres etc..(if they are only 50mm bigger) but it can be expensive with the engineering approval and lane change. But then you will have piece of mind and full insurance.

Cheers,

Thanks mate really appreciate the insight! I hear price for cert varies by engineer... What has it cost so far?

[Tyvokka]

Mine was $1500, own test track.

He's already above 2", with 3.5" lift and 33" tyres = 5.5", so definitely a lane change (moose test), brake test, flares to cover the muddies, mud flaps, that's pretty much what you need

[alexbrown64]

Uberclass, i got getting my lockers, gearing, long range tank, after market coil over adjustable suspension etc. engineered here in Perth for $700. I kept my roof height below the 50mm because a lane change cert here runs about 3K and even then i could only run 30.4 inch tyres max. I believe you may be lucky running at a 5.5" roof height lift, as anything above 6" is another kettle of fish.
In my case, my XJ got a defect notice, and would not pass without the engineering certs.
Tyvokka, that was a good price for a lane change test and engineering.

Cheers,

[uberlucas]

Thank you all for feedback. I'm also questioning legality of sale. Are people allowed to sell "illegal" modified cars in Australia? You can sell a car that's not roadworthy (even though we all know it functions just fine)? I can't for the life of me understand why the private seller wouldn't have said "by the way you're going to have to get a engineering certificate for this car to be legal" lol

[S.Bartfast]

Originally Posted by Tyvokka

He's already above 2", with 3.5" lift and 33" tyres = 5.5"...

4.5" higher, no?
(2" increase in tyre diameter adds only 1" to the vehicle height itself)

Originally Posted by uberlucas

Thank you all for feedback. I'm also questioning legality of sale. Are people allowed to sell "illegal" modified cars in Australia? You can sell a car that's not roadworthy (even though we all know it functions just fine)? I can't for the life of me understand why the private seller wouldn't have said "by the way you're going to have to get a engineering certificate for this car to be legal" lol

To be honest mate, very few of the vehicles on here would be technically legal.
I'm not exactly sure where the 50mm rule of thumb comes from but I couldn't find it in the regulations myself, and that's not due to a lack of trying.

What I saw said that in South Australia an increase of just 15mm of wheel diameter requires a certificate (which is ridiculous) and ANY change to the suspension/steering what so ever required either a letter from the manufacturer that the modification wouldn't affect the ESP (fat chance) or an engineering certificate.

As for insurance, most of the companies will happily list your modifications and take your money accordingly but all of them have the little line in there policy that reads "Must be legally roadworthy", which technically means they could deny your claim if push came to shove - even if you had your modifications listed on your policy. Now I've never heard of this happening and honestly I think it's in the insurance companies best interest to just issue the payout regardless but they would be technically within their rights to deny the claim if they wished. The upshot of all this is that we all have technically unroadworthy cars, register and insure them anyway, list our (technically illegal) modifications and pay premiums to match and just trust that an insurance company would have to be real dirtbag to deny your claim, and as of yet it's all been fine.

Seriously though, the fine letter of the law is ridiculous but as long as you have no more that 2" you will no doubt be fine - but don't think you are necessarily legal. It's that ESP (Electronic Stability Program) line that gets you, even if you have no change in height at all.

As for 4"-6", a certificate would be advisable but from my experience there not as easy to get as one might think. I've met so many people who are quote "going through the process of getting it certified" but I have never actually yet meet anyone to 100% legit have it done - even the big 4x4 workshops that actually fit these modifications!

As for selling you a modified-uncertified car, that's kind of to be expected I'm afraid. I sympathise with you being from the States and expecting the mods to be 100% legal (as they no doubt are in the US) but honestly here, anyone buying a 2+" lifted vehicle would be knowingly taking on some risk. It's kind of like buying a motorcycle with a loud exhaust. You buy it because you want it that way and just kind of take your chances with the popo. Obviously with a 4x4 and insurance the stakes are higher but I would not expect a tyre retailer or a 4x4 workshop to go through the finer details of what is technically legal, let alone a private seller - unfortunately.

[uberlucas]

Originally Posted by S.Bartfast

4.5" higher, no?
(2" increase in tyre diameter adds only 1" to the vehicle height itself)



To be honest mate, very few of the vehicles on here would be technically legal.
I'm not exactly sure where the 50mm rule of thumb comes from but I couldn't find it in the regulations myself, and that's not due to a lack of trying.

What I saw said that in South Australia an increase of just 15mm of wheel diameter requires a certificate (which is ridiculous) and ANY change to the suspension/steering what so ever required either a letter from the manufacturer that the modification wouldn't affect the ESP (fat chance) or an engineering certificate.

As for insurance, most of the companies will happily list your modifications and take your money accordingly but all of them have the little line in there policy that reads "Must be legally roadworthy", which technically means they could deny your claim if push came to shove - even if you had your modifications listed on your policy. Now I've never heard of this happening and honestly I think it's in the insurance companies best interest to just issue the payout regardless but they would be technically within their rights to deny the claim if they wished. The upshot of all this is that we all have technically unroadworthy cars, register and insure them anyway, list our (technically illegal) modifications and pay premiums to match and just trust that an insurance company would have to be real dirtbag to deny your claim, and as of yet it's all been fine.

Seriously though, the fine letter of the law is ridiculous but as long as you have no more that 2" you will no doubt be fine - but don't think you are necessarily legal. It's that ESP (Electronic Stability Program) line that gets you, even if you have no change in height at all.

As for 4"-6", a certificate would be advisable but from my experience there not as easy to get as one might think. I've met so many people who are quote "going through the process of getting it certified" but I have never actually yet meet anyone to 100% legit have it done - even the big 4x4 workshops that actually fit these modifications!

As for selling you a modified-uncertified car, that's kind of to be expected I'm afraid. I sympathise with you being from the States and expecting the mods to be 100% legal (as they no doubt are in the US) but honestly here, anyone buying a 2+" lifted vehicle would be knowingly taking on some risk. It's kind of like buying a motorcycle with a loud exhaust. You buy it because you want it that way and just kind of take your chances with the popo. Obviously with a 4x4 and insurance the stakes are higher but I would not expect a tyre retailer or a 4x4 workshop to go through the finer details of what is technically legal, let alone a private seller - unfortunately.

Makes sense and I really appreciate your reply!! Would you reckon I'm best off switching to an insurance company that specifically handles modded vehicles? Meanwhile starting the process of engineering certificate. I'm currently with Allianz. Cheers

[OKA4wd]

have you checked the rego office if they have any record of it being modified & certified