Suspension Lifts .. OK for some JGC models but apparently not for 2015 onward

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

My take on this is it's just incompetence, a useless paper shuffler + their manager decided to cut down on paperwork and no one realised the mistake until the media jumped up and down.

I personally didn't know about MC/MA until this happened.

The next batch of paperwork will be done the right way i'd say but I doubt they will do anything for existing owners because they seem far more interested in pumping out cheap jacked up hatch backs.

Hello Snake Doctor..I didn't know either until a viewer on my web site contacted me and said I should put something up to inform owners of the implications of this bureaucratic stuffup..This started my info search and subsequent posts on this forum..While I own a 2014 Grand it doesn't affect me untill (was) considering a new Trailhawk WK2 but my concern is with all the 2015 plus owners that have been hung out to dry on this especially those who have already modified their WK2..Where does this leave them when selling with safety/roadworthy certificates - maybe not if trading but on private sale ?? and also those states that require a certificate when re-registering...Must have some effect on resale.. A potential time bomb maybe..Do they, at greater expense have to return their vehicles back to standard?? Someone needs to be held accountable or maybe a dare I say it a "Class Action"..but I think FCA have left themselves enough wriggle room on this as they always do but then there is a "Duty of Care" aspect to this in that there should be full product disclosure on sale of these affected vehicles advertised as 4x4 go anywhere - don't hold back SUVs..Well this is my take on this mess..Yep I know about paper shufflers having been there and turned prematurely grey during my working career...reason I quit in frustration..& I have had, if you look back on past posts a lot of issues with FCA especially not returning calls or emails..stonewalled at the reception..so I'm not surprised that they rescinded the WK2 MC rating..Someone's "not so bright" idea so save a few bucks...When the word gets around then sales must take a hit..Ford have realised this...FCA?? Well let's see...& buyer beware.

[Troutman]

Originally Posted by SnakeDoctor

My take on this is it's just incompetence, a useless paper shuffler ......

Totally agree mate. I don't think FCA have left themselves much wriggle room at all. Any half reasonable person's understanding of 'duty of care' would immediately be drawn to the fact that rather than warning owners the vehicles are not to be driven off road, FCA have done the complete opposite....hell, there's even a dial in the vehicle with mud, rocks, sand and snow traction modes. The cockhead that signed off on this ADR also needs sacking.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Troutman

Totally agree mate. I don't think FCA have left themselves much wriggle room at all. Any half reasonable person's understanding of 'duty of care' would immediately be drawn to the fact that rather than warning owners the vehicles are not to be driven off road, FCA have done the complete opposite....hell, there's even a dial in the vehicle with mud, rocks, sand and snow traction modes. The cockhead that signed off on this ADR also needs sacking.

Unfortunately "Sacking" wont happen..DHs like this have a habit of ducking and weaving and putting s..t on some poor employee below..Seen it happen too many times..Also I'm writing to 4x4 Australia Magazine to protest and ask why they still include the WK2 Grand Cherokee in their 4x4 list since now it is only a passenger car and by including it readers will assume that it is an "Offroader"..My stand on this cause and hopefully concerned owners will do similar.


According to the Australian Consumer Law and if the ACCC became involved, FCA (not popular with the ACCC already) would probably be compelled to take back the vehicles, as they were sold "not fit for purpose"

The list of MC rated vehicles that are modifiable are a mixed bag and raises a lot of questions see: Loaded 4x4 article

[hills46]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

...
Well anyway it looks like QuadraLift air suspension for legal lift if you want a Jeep but tyres???..P rated tyres don't do it for me...Can't fathom why if the Jeep Air suspension can raise it to OR1 or OR2 why can't the WK2 with steel suspension be lifted legally to the same height..MA!!...Now that's really is red tape BS.

...

Just to play devils advocate, the QL will lower the vehicle again if you exceed certain speeds so as to stay within the operating parameters of the ESC. I'm not sure it's legal to permanently lift an ESC equipped vehicle, irrespective of whether it's MA or MC rated. Unless you want to get an engineering cert for it.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by hills46

Just to play devils advocate, the QL will lower the vehicle again if you exceed certain speeds so as to stay within the operating parameters of the ESC. I'm not sure it's legal to permanently lift an ESC equipped vehicle, irrespective of whether it's MA or MC rated. Unless you want to get an engineering cert for it.

You have a good point there but I believe the OR1 speed threshold can be raised from 80km/h to 110km/h if you ask your Jeep dealer..This is only hearsay and I've never checked it out so if correct then 1.3" lift must still be within ESC parameters. What I can't understand though is the MA classification of Trailhawks which I assumed to be "Trail Rated"..Definition of "Trail Rated"??..Me as an Australian would have defined this as offroad..Besides all the steel suspension 2" lifted WK2s that I know of have never reported premature ESC activation so guess that means still OK even if not within ADRs..Now further to the MA reclassification, what about the Aftermarket developers of lift kits and other offroad gear for the WK2??...Guess now they'll stop developing and manufacturing for the WK2...no money in it....and Installers where do they stand in all this mess??...They have a "Duty of Care" or don't they??

No mention of ESC in the Jeep blurp on OR1 or OR2 "Improved off-road performance by increasing ground clearance with 2 settings: Off-Road II is 2.6" higher than normal ride height (NRH) and Off-Road I is 1.3" higher than NRH
Automatically lowers at highway speeds to reduce drag resulting in better fuel economy (0.5" lower than NRH) "

But this doesn't override the ARDs of course which many have said are BS anyway but it is the law until changed.
Seems now if we jeep fanatics want an offroad WK2 with lift then we are essentially limited to the QuadraLift (OR1 down at 80km/h & OR2 down at 40kM/h a real pain in the Simpson between dunes) so sales of steel suspension will slide but not being able to fit heavier duty offroad tyres is a worry to me and I've had my day with P rated tyres having had 4 flats on the Plenty Hwy all in one day...Always had me baffled though - 20" rims and P rated tyres on a "once was true" offroader..What ever happened to the Jeep Legend???...MA one more nail in the coffin.

Anyway this is it with Jeeps for me unless there is a change back to MC..Without my next 4x4 will be a Ranger Wildtrack..Hard for me to say that after 20 years and many Jeeps but going by the sales of Dualcab Utes and the slide in Jeep sales then I'm not the only one drifting to the other side...Over and out for me.

[Troutman]

I don't think the repercussions will be anywhere near as dramatic mate....certainly not the end of aftermarket suspensions. For the most part this ADR will get what it deserves and be ignored, as all new age goatrootery should be. Anyone ending up in court will have a better than even chance of challenging both the ADR interpretation and FCA's complicity in such incompetent marketing and compliance of their products. Certainly won't change where or how I use my WK2 nor the tyres or any other mod I deem appropriate...seeing I'm the bloke who footed the bill and all. YMMV of course.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Troutman

I don't think the repercussions will be anywhere near as dramatic mate....certainly not the end of aftermarket suspensions. For the most part this ADR will get what it deserves and be ignored, as all new age goatrootery should be. Anyone ending up in court will have a better than even chance of challenging both the ADR interpretation and FCA's complicity in such incompetent marketing and compliance of their products. Certainly won't change where or how I use my WK2 nor the tyres or any other mod I deem appropriate...seeing I'm the bloke who footed the bill and all. YMMV of course.

Probably right but owners need to be aware of potential implications so just pointing out worse case and then there is Jeep with their warranty and there is Insurance aspects...Good old duck an weave SOP......Incompetence??? Yes!! but then that's is bureaucracy..But if you are willing to do your own thing then go for it..I do anyway...Anyway If you don't make enough noise then there will be no change...Depends on how strong you feel about it I guess. Jeep did disappear from Australia before and took about 20 years to return...Anything is possible when you have DH decisions like this..Besides most of us 4x4ers buy Jeeps because WE CAN (or could) Modify to suit..Just what the Legend was made built on and what we'd continue to expect from this brand..Certainly not MA passenger classification..