Door Removal

[Jeepdownunder]

Originally Posted by Fat Chili

This unfortunately does not apply in QLD, still fighting the DOT on this issue here. Hence the initial reasoning for the thread.

Similar thread - http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...ighlight=doors

It'll become an issue if it keeps getting raised. Just enjoy the car and the open air heritage...No one cares or even thinks about it. Cops don't care about a Jeep open or closed...I should know!

[Fat Chili]

Originally Posted by Jeepdownunder

It'll become an issue if it keeps getting raised. Just enjoy the car and the open air heritage...No one cares or even thinks about it. Cops don't care about a Jeep open or closed...I should know!

Great generalisation especially given that you resurrected this thread which had no posts since Oct 06. It might be okay in Vic but up here the DOT state that it is not legal and the cops enforce it as they are required to do (Yep, their bored up here ).

"I should also know!" as I have enquirey feedback documentation from the 'Office of the Minister for Transport and Main Roads', the fact of the matter is that all correspondence recieved from the DOT to date is flawed even when compared to the ADR's. Now their (the DOT) only comeback is that it prevents occupants from being struck by road debri..

I have previously performed consultancy work for the Vic Police and know that Vic Roads have obviously realised that the doors offer 'zero' occupant protection and therefore are not legally necessary and even publish letters to verify their stance when an enquirey is submitted.

I realise where your coming from when you state "No one cares or even thinks about it. Cops don't care about a Jeep open or closed" but around here it is an issue, as I have mates who have been defected for it and lesser isues. I.e. the removal of the rear seat (TJ) up here equates to an un-roadworthy vehicle as the occupant capacity has been modified and differs from the that which is stated on the rego stcker . It's bloody designed to be removed!

So if your in the 'know', then maybe you could assist as the issue needs to be resolved. After all if the issue has been put to rest (resolved) in Vic they why can't QLD DOT see the light and follow suit, I can gladly email you copies of the Transport Departments feedback to our enquiries.

[Jeepdownunder]

Originally Posted by Fat Chili

Great generalisation especially given that you resurrected this thread which had no posts since Oct 06. It might be okay in Vic but up here the DOT state that it is not legal and the cops enforce it as they are required to do (Yep, their bored up here ).

"I should also know!" as I have enquirey feedback documentation from the 'Office of the Minister for Transport and Main Roads', the fact of the matter is that all correspondence recieved from the DOT to date is flawed even when compared to the ADR's. Now their (the DOT) only comeback is that it prevents occupants from being struck by road debri..

I have previously performed consultancy work for the Vic Police and know that Vic Roads have obviously realised that the doors offer 'zero' occupant protection and therefore are not legally necessary and even publish letters to verify their stance when an enquirey is submitted.

I realise where your coming from when you state "No one cares or even thinks about it. Cops don't care about a Jeep open or closed" but around here it is an issue, as I have mates who have been defected for it and lesser isues. I.e. the removal of the rear seat (TJ) up here equates to an un-roadworthy vehicle as the occupant capacity has been modified and differs from the that which is stated on the rego stcker . It's bloody designed to be removed!

So if your in the 'know', then maybe you could assist as the issue needs to be resolved. After all if the issue has been put to rest (resolved) in Vic they why can't QLD DOT see the light and follow suit, I can gladly email you copies of the Transport Departments feedback to our enquiries.

Car is NOT modified. Its specs state removable doors and roof and or fold down (Period) Specs have not been changed or modified. Get booked then take it to Court, it'll get thrown out!

[Fat Chili]

I realise that, hence the frustration, but try telling the dicks at the DOT.
I'm not contesting what you have written but I would simply like the QLD DOT to acknowledge that the removal of the doors does not adversly effect the safety of the vehicle (like a moke etc.) and supply others and myself the documentation similar to that which Vic Roads issues.

Here is their feedback, all of which is flawed (i.e. if mirrors are relocated etc.):

FEEDBACK FORM
FOR ENQUIRIES FROM MINISTER'S OFFICE

Subject:
Removal of doors on Jeep Wrangler
Enquiry from:
Office of the Minister for Transport and Main Roads
Dot points:

• The Australian Design Rules (ADRs) are mandatory safety and emission standards for vehicles for on-road the Australian market.

• Under Queensland's Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999 it is an offence to modify a road vehicle in a way that would adversely affect its safety and/or that causes it to not comply with the ADRs.

• ADR 29/00 Side Door Strength and ADR 72/00 Dynamic Side Impact Occupant Protection specifies side impact protection requirements for vehicles. However, this is only one aspect of vehicle safety and as stated by the enquirer when the doors are removed the rear mirrors are also removed. This would makes the vehicle non-compliant with ADR 14/.. Rear Vision Mirrors.

• It also needs to be considered if a change to a vehicle will diminish its safety in ways other than compliance with the ADRs and what approval if any is required. QT's brochure "All about modification to motor vehicles" explains what modifications and changes are permitted to a light motor vehicle without approval and what modifications require certification approval under the relevant codes for vehicle modification. Removal of doors is not a change/modification that is listed as permitted without approval or under the codes of practice for vehicle modification.

• The brochure can be down loaded from the following web address:
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/ReferenceLookup/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf/$file/Modification_Jan05v2.pdf

• Modifications to vehicles that are not listed as permitted under the codes or are not listed as permitted without approval require specific approval from an appropriate delegate of the Chief Executive of Queensland Transport (QT). No such approval has been given for general removal of doors for any vehicle including Jeep Wranglers.

• The removal of a door from motor vehicles irrespective of requirements of ADR 29/00, ADR 72/00 and other ADRs expose the driver and passenger to greater risk from road debris. As the driver of the vehicle is at greater risk of injury while the vehicle is in motion this also places other road users at greater safety risk from the vehicle. The removal of a door from a motor vehicle diminishes it safety and is therefore not permitted under the Queensland's Transport Operations (Road Use Management - Vehicle Standards and Safety) Regulation 1999.



"Expose the driver and passenger to greater risk from road debris. As the driver of the vehicle is at greater risk of injury while the vehicle is in motion this also places other road users at greater safety risk from the vehicle."

What about motor bike riders, and all other convertable vehicles? (utter crap!)

ADR 2/00 (Side door latches and hinges) even raised it's head:

"Components on folding doors, roll-up doors and on doors that are designed to be easily attached to or removed, without the aid of tools, from motor vehicles manufactured for operation without doors need not comply with this Rule."

So we requested that the Parliamentary Library supply us the definition of 'tools' as this was a key word for the removal of side door latches and hinges. No response to date.

We contacted DC with regard to several issues, here's their response:

Answers to your questions.
>
>1/ DaimlerChrysler Australia/Pacific did not seek certification with the
>doors removed, as with-out the side doors TJ Wranglers do not comply with
>all applicable ADRs. To our knowledge DaimlerChrysler Australia/Pacific has
>never marketed the TJ Wranglers with the doors removed or has suggested
>that the vehicles can be legally operated on public roads with the doors
>removed.

This was no help!

[Tommo]

Winding down the window also increases risk, but exposing you to danger of things flying in.

So does changing paint colour to black, decreasing visibility.

Adding a bullbar increases mass, increasing stopping distance, decreasing safety.


Removing doors is just an extreme form of winding the windows down.