NAG1 info

[FARWEST]

So have been doing more research on these NAG1 trannys....W5A580 if you like...722.6 all same same with a few differences...lets stick with NAG1....It seems the clutch packs in the torque converter can be a source of problems....treebeakerbob has given me LOTS of life experiences with his well cared for machine and the issues he experienced in earlier years...THANK YOU Bob !
It seems my 'failing tranny' may not be that at all...it may well be the clutch pack in the torque converter.
No US or Euro based tranny sites recommend reconditioning your existing auto box...these boxes we are talking about...as the 'old' technology internally needs to be updated to fix the initial manufacturing inbiult problems...words from the experts on the subject...not my opinion.
Factory boxes are good for 320k according to the experts...as long as regular servicing, the o-ring on the tranny dip tube is upgraded with an aftermarket better product and correct tranny fluid is used and the correct fluid level is maintained...which I have real time disproved by adding 500ml to a correctly filled box...and, the Euro site I hoogled at the time in fact recommended simply adding a LUCAS product but the MOREYS is a bees knee off the same specs...minute difference...so no...not an issue.


The box is a very strong robust unit capable of handling up to 580Nm of torque..as per its name...W5A580....and is in fact recommended for vehicles up to 800HP but certainly more than capable up to 600+HP.....SOOOO......that side of things is never going to be an issue with my factory standard VM engine.
My question here is this:
Is there anybody here that has a bit of experience with these boxes and can provide input onto whether the following could simply be the clutch pack in the torque converter...costs approx. 1k plus workshop labour...against my issue being the entire tranny with a need to also upgrade the tirque converter.
Vehicle had first tranny service at 155k....nowhere near ok and all research tells me so.


After service vehicle travelled 900klm home with no issues.
Hooked on van(approx 3t all up) and travelled approx. 350klm @ an average 100-105kph when I noticed the tacho climb to 4krpm n temp on tranny evic gauge soar to 103C....had been between 80 (which is the normal running temp) and 93C which is quite ok hauling 3t through undulating countryside.


Pulled over and checked/smelt for leaks or damage...nothing.
Drove a further 100klm at speeds down to 75kph to keep the tranny temp down n stop the slippage...ie: evident with tacho increases.
Put 500ml of Moreys into an already, just serviced, box...reduced my speeds to 95kph max n only experienced an issue when 'testing' speeds around 100kph in very hilly country
Vehicle towed a further 6k on that journey.
Pulling over and allowing temps to drop back for an hour always solves the 'slipping' and hi temp issues.
Box has done approx 15k since the first 'slipping' hi temps issues.
Box temp has never been above 113C and research shows the dash trans hi temp light does not illuminate until 136C...mega high in my opinion but thats why Im asking the question.
Towed approx 100klm recently and 'stabbed' the throttle at a T-Junction leading to an uphill grade and box started slipping...temp started rising...instantly.
Now for those with knowledge...there is NO shudder(shudder being what most NAG1 experts say is symptoms of failed torque converter clutch plates)..only shudder is at cold morning start ups, which I have put down to the MOREYS mix in the box needing to circulate and 'thin out'.

I am completely undecided as to which path to go down:
1) Replace the torque converter with an upgraded version.
2) Replace the box AND the torque converter.

There isnt another option from my research.

Any input from anybody having experience with these boxes in any form, no matter which vehicle it was in, is much appreciated.

Thank you....long thread but I had to try to cut out any questions as to the source and symptoms of the issue.
__________________

[Jeeper6]

My brother is an auto trans guru, he has been assembling and reconditioning autos for around 35 years now and has his own shop in Perth....

I will be spending some time with him and other family of course when in Perth...I'll try to remember to pick his brain on that one FARWEST...he would have to have some insights....but that won't be until late July unfortunately.

[drover]

I don't know what the Yanks and Europeans sites you saw are on about as these boxes have been getting rebuilds here in Oz for well over 20 years in Jeeps and Benz's, something that was put to me with my WG many moons back.........

I'd go an exchange box myself so long as the current box isn't junked... short and sweet change....no stuffiing around.

[FARWEST]

Gear track was the US site and Euro Auto site....name eludes me atm...googled for many hours to get the same results....as we both base our skills around....when a bit shytes itself...research the specialist in that field, not a Jeep or brand research....brakes are brakes, pnuematics are pnuematics, clutches are clutches, a driveshaft is a driveshaft, bearings are bearings, auto's are auto's...being these boxes were originally Benz boxes before Chryslers intervention and adaptation to provide a solid auto for there performance products, my research goes down the path of Auto specialists and I always read every bit of data available, then, correlate all the info to gain an outcome.
The reason/basis for the sites saying...rebiulds are not recommended are varied:
1) Crud/tarnish remains adhered to the inner casing and can come away after a rebiuld causing failure.
2) The inner workings of these boxes has been upgraded to cancel the original 'weak points'. A rebiuld can simply replace the old technology same for same...poor outcome.
3) The newer/later versions of these boxes have all the upgraded technolgy circumventing the original manufacturing 'weak points'.

There is only (he says) around 2k between full rebiuld of my box to buying a new box....my economics says...buy the newer/updated/upgraded box....but.....the question still remains re: the torque converter....a new updated/upgraded torque converter is around 1k...plus plus....

Im kinda answering my own question as to which path to go down...from an Irish standpoint...to be sure to be sure...a new box and new upgraded torque converter will see me, and the car, set till death do us part....from a finiancial standpoint...a new torque converter with a box flush n small refurb whilst out (seals, gaskets, wear n tear bits) would save me near 5k...asking for input as to those with experience with these boxes as to my best approach.

As a point of reference...the workshop in Mel.(Wholesale Automatics) doing reconditioned boxes for 5kish, will only rebiuld YOUR box...turn around time is a predicted 4 weeks from receiving the box in their shop...so...box to be pulled...shipped to them using their preferred freight provider...they rebiuld and ship back.

[FARWEST]

OUTCOME:
Contacted the Transmission shop in Adelaide that did the service and talked him through the above posted info.
His opinion :
Just get yours fully rebiult and we also rebiuld or renew the torque converter and its clutches.
COST:
$5.5k full job with Warranty if his 20k service cycles are adhered too.
1 week in shop to do the job.
Full rebiuld...everything replaced...all labour included.

My plan.....cook dinner, dim the lights, put on some of her fav music, be extremely nice and wait for..."What do you want ?"

ps: HUGE THANK YOU to Grippy for recommending the auto shop to me in the first place...owe you more than a few coldies mate !....cheers

[FARWEST]

I should give a shout out and drop the name of the Auto Transmission shop in Adelaide for forum members that may find the info helpful:
Salisbury Transmission Specialist.
Salisbury Plain. SA.
Workshop Owner is Simon...his wife mans reception.
30+yrs in the business.

Hope that info helps somebody.

[Grippy]

They have a good rep that place, hence why I have used them as I hate trusting anyone with anything, haha. He seems like a good old school bloke that is willing to talk you through any questions you have.
5 big ones is a lot of dough, but you'd have a brand spanking new box, put together well, which like you said, should last a long time.
This reminds me, I have to take mine in about 5k to see h ow she's fared after the 100k service and the fluid being as black as the ace of spades.