Death wobbling piece of s#$t

[Simsy85]

Originally Posted by JEEPCHIK

So, after fitting the lift kit you were at 100mm or so, the springs have now settled and you are now riding at about 3.5 inches.Have you replaced any other suspension componants like control arms??The reason why I ask is JAG's up here has the same kit on his 4 door and it has done the same things as yours with ride heights but he has had to fit front and rear adjustable control arms to line up the diffs again.I assume these things would have been checked out by now on your JK, Simsy.

As for the SYE, you are over 3 inches.If you don't have one fitted I'd say trouble could be just around the corner.Strongly recommended by alot of JKer's and JP magazine that you fit a SYE once you are over 3 inches in overall height.It makes me real nervous reading about you driving around without a SYE fitted.


Just a suggestion.

Green jk beat me too it, not need for a SYE on a JK, nor an initial change for the control arms (as JK ones are alot tougher, TJ's are tin foil) (yet TJ drivers think they are better pfft).

I have used drop brackets etc to realign the diffs and they are now 100% in line with each other. I didn't mention it because I (personally) wouldn't count an OME lift done without it as complete.

i'll say again what I said to dhard:

Originally Posted by Simsy85

At the end of the day, I might agree with you if EXACTLY the same issue wasn't occuring with stock vehicles, but at the end of the day, it is.

I think this is what it comes down to..

Its like if people ate at a restaurant, and everyone who ate there got sick, including some people that had chicken, you wouldn't blame the whole thing on the chicken would you? you'd look at the thing that EVERYONE has in common...

[dhard]

Jk wrangler estimated lift ome 50mm fr 60mm rear don't know where 2.5 inches comes from i've got the paper work here in front of me. So even allowing for settling it is closer to 3" which technically would require caster correction possibly bracket on front panhard or adjustable one to get draglink and panhard back closer to stock alignment. However it may be none of these and could be something as simple as worn bush or steering damper not being tightend properly. The interesting thing here with Simsy's is that it only became present after changing from the bigger heaver stts to the stock tyres and until i read the thread on the aev forum i wouldn't have thought that likely if both tyres are balanced properly. After reading the article it may appear that the weight of the stt were in sync with whatever is causing dw and the lighter tyres aren't in sync so it becomes uncontrollable. DW is part and parcel of having beam axles that's why steering dampers are on them from new. As the article says they are there to help control axle oscillation hence masking the dw. Anybody who doesn't know about dw should read this article it is very good and is written by people who know.

[Stevil]

What article ?

[BrisNut]

Originally Posted by J..

Thanks for the constructive feedback. Now that I've calmed down a little bit (havent driven the car all weekend), I'll explain all that I've been told about this JK problem.

This actually started with T.W. I called in there a few months ago to grab some parts. Out of interest he asked me what k's had the car done and did I have death wobble yet. I said no, and he said "wait for it, it's coming".

Well damn it he was 100% right. Few weeks after that I started to notice a little wobble that fairly quickly developed into the undrivable 4wd that it currently is.

So I got in contact with him to ask the solution, and he informed me there isnt one! He told me he has tried everything possible on a number of JK's with the same problem, adjustments, back to stock wheels and components etc and NOTHING has worked. People... this problem is happening to stock as a rock JK's and lift/mods is not what it's about. He told me theres nothing that either he or Jeep can sell me or do to the car to fix it, and that I need to go straight to Jeep and lodge an official complaint. Tony also mentioned one person with the problem he knew actually returned their Jeep for a refund because the dw is currently not fixable. I was amazed.

An hour later I rocked into my Jeep service department and walked up to the service manager saying "I need to lodge a complaint about our JK Wrangler" he replied "Is it in the steering?"

So we went through their reporting system for serious complaints and he sent an email with our description of the problem direct to Chrysler. Early in the convo he told me there is absolutely nothing they can do to cure or eleviate the problem. Apparently, initially Chrysler instructed them to try adjusting or replacing various things. But after a recent point in time they told the dealers to stop as they were taking over the problem from there. Not once did he even ask if I had a lift or if I had tried getting a alignment etc. He said Chrysler were more than well aware of the problem and they were currently liasing with their counterparts in the US to solve it. I was the fifth JK owner to report serious dw at their dealership.

It's somewhat reassuring to hear people offer solutions here. But from what I have been told by Jeep experts I can only presume they will be done in vain?

I've spent a lot of money on this near new vehicle to find it now has an apparently 'unfixable' serious problem. I think it's justifyable that I'm a little upset.

I'm probably way off the mark, but after experiencing this dw many times now, and hearing they cant cure it with syspension adjustments, I'm thinking it may be in the chassis. Kenworth had a similar problem few years ago in one of their models of trucks.

Has anyone else heard the story told like this?

Nothings unfixable, they just don't have anyone smart enough to work out what it is. It's not rocket science cars have been getting deathwobbles since the wheel was invented. Something has changed a bush has got sloppy or a weld has cracked, or as someone pointed out there's the possibility of something funky happening withthe electics in the brakes.
What tyres are we talking, are the factory donuts crap?
Lost weights on the rims?
We had death wobbles on a mates MQ from Bribane to Cape York and back, the vehicle was checked and had new bushes, springs & shocks a good 6 months beforehand and never showed a problem untill we loaded it, we hid it for a while with a new steering damper and shocks installed at Cairns on the way up but it was back by Cooktown, so we replaced 2 tyres, then rebalanced & rotated the tyres at Weipa, then rebalanced again at The Cape. Wasn't till we got a guy at Cairns on the way back to put it on a Truck-O-Liner fully loaded that we ended up finding a slightly bent front axle housing at the ball joint and shimming it square and rotating the diff with shims as well to improve the alignment angle. It drove better than ever after that.

[MCJK]

I have OME springs, none OME shocks,
no panhard correction front or rear.
35's... and No Steering dampner, daily driver at speeds up to 100km, 25000 km, no Death Wobbles.

Lets blame the OME shocks shall we lol

Why is there a Steering dampner? because the JK, TJ, CJ have a steering Box not a rack and pinion.
Steering dampner is to create uniform turning pressure, Dampen Road feedback, and assist with tracking. If it masks DW, it's a Bonus.

Only takes one of these to have a small amount of play to cause DW.

1 of the 8 control arm bushes up front.
1 of the 2 panhard bushes
1 of the 4 ball joints < alot of reported premature wear here.
1 of the 2 tie rod ends
1 of the 2 drag link joints.

Only takes one of these items to be worn and DW can show it's ugly face, doesn't take alot to create an unfavourable suspension geometry angle.

Then there is Wheel Allignment, Toe correction seems to fix alot of the vehicles - Caster angle (which will Alter KPI), Camber is Set in Cast unless you bend it!
Even low tyre pressures can cause DW

Difficult part is identifying which component or components are to Blame.. not as easy as it sounds.

[J..]

I understand it can be fixed. All problems can be fixed. What I dont understand is if it is fixable, why hasnt someone come up with a cure yet?

Both Chrysler Jeep and independent Jeep specialists have spent a lot of time trying to come up with a solution to JK dw, but so far no one has.

[colingo]

Are there any similarities amongst the JK's that have the DW? 2 door or 4 door, auto or manual, petrol or diesel, etc.
Only asking because I haven't seen the question before.