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  #10  
Old 04-02-2015
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Only in a case of emergency for me. Have run many tyres with plugs in the main tread with no problems but would never do the sidewalls. Besides the only sidewall damage I have incurred in 32 years of driving was a year ago when the missus put a tree root through the side of a brand new Duratrac.... Hole was the size of my thumb so not much possible anyway.
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2015
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Default Tubes & bead damage

This was a tyre on a trailer that failed. Just found it, was still on the rubbish heap.
Had minor bead damage, would not hold air so a tube fitted.
Was fitted to a trailer & was fine for short trips. Failed about a year ago.
4 hrs in 43+ deg heat on the Hume @ 110km/hr with a load in the trailer, probably about 80% of load rating & the tyre failed on the sidewall with the bead damage. the other sidewall was fine.
2 tyre techs have seen it & both came to the same conclusion. Tubeless tyres with tubes fitted have significantly reduced temperature & load ratings compared with being run tubeless.
this may not be stated in a standard, its a practical thing.
If it had been on the front of the jeep, probably would have been in real trouble. The trailer was all over the road when it went bang.

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Old 08-02-2015
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the acceptable method of running a tube in a tubeless tyre is simple common sense. remove any stickers from inside the tyre along with any debris. patch the tyre if needed to cover any cracks etc. rub a quantity of talcum powder inside the tyre & fit it up. After the beads seat, slow down & make sure any trapped air bleeds out around the valve stem.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low ranger View Post
the acceptable method of running a tube in a tubeless tyre is simple common sense. remove any stickers from inside the tyre along with any debris. patch the tyre if needed to cover any cracks etc. rub a quantity of talcum powder inside the tyre & fit it up. After the beads seat, slow down & make sure any trapped air bleeds out around the valve stem.
Exactly and unlike the post above...check the date code and don't put old rusty rims and old tyres on trailers!!
Guess common sense isn't that common any more. Hahaha
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Last edited by Macca2801; 09-02-2015 at 11:49 AM. Reason: spelling for the expert
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Old 08-02-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
Exactly and unlike the post above...check the date code and don't put old rusty rims and old tyres on trailers!!
Guess common sense isn't that comman any more. Hahaha
About the comment I would expect from this so called expert in the west.
The tyre was not old, less than 2 years. it was on a mag wheel. The rust stain is from water that has dried on the tyre that had drained off other stuff in the junk heap. I guess as well as lacking common sense, some like to assume & just make an ass out of them self.
After all in a previous post the same was suggesting a damaged tyre would be fine with a tube.
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  #15  
Old 09-02-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
About the comment I would expect from this so called expert in the west.

After all in a previous post the same was suggesting a damaged tyre would be fine with a tube.
Expert?? Nope sorry I have never professed to being an expert, simply qualified and have the expert technical information at hand. I think you were the one quoting your resume and professing to be the expert on everything known to man You were also the one requesting my experience and education level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40
As a trade trained person you are not qualified to provide expert comment on matters such as the structure of tyres. The necessary knowledge requires a sound understanding of subjects that are well beyond the scope of trade training. I suspect you may be a diesel mechanic, probably a very good diesel mechanic, but not a professional engineer with qualifications acceptable to Engineers Australia & so recognized in a legal sense. That is the minimum requirement for some one to have the necessary training & knowledge to be able to give such an opinion.

Have you ever been called on to provide expert opinion concerning structural failure in a court ? I suspect not. I have.

When you have gone back to school & successfully completed year 12 so as to be accepted to study engineering at a university, then successfully completed those studies & gained at least 30 years of professional experience probably including training other professional engineers. Then we can continue this discussion.
The two ridiculous points you make in your post now and earlier are refuted, not by me but by the expert engineers that wrote the standards.

Firstly, any tyre that has damage to the bead seat area and after inspection deemed minor damage (minor is explained in the standard) the tyre can be repaired or if it will not hold air, permanently classified as now tubed tyre.

This is not my opinion, this is fact and has been deemed so by engineers who have actual relevant experience and expertise on the subject, unlike you.

Second that you cannot fit a tube to a tubeless tyre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40
Tubeless tyres become unroadworthy if fitted with tubes as the tube fitment increases the heat build up in the tyre.
Totally incorrect! There are some tyres obviously that manufacturers wont fit tubes to due to the speed rating of the tyre, don't recall the specific rating off hand but it it is in the standard. Edit- mistaken, the "V" speed rated exemption is only specific to REPAIRS not fitting of tubes!

Tubes are fitted to tubeless tyres on a daily basis both as Original Equipment and also by tyres fitters to Heavy vehicle, Light vehicle and also motorbikes. This is usually due to the construction of the rim and it not being a design that can hold air, ie spoked motorbike tyres, split rims etc. These are NOT specific designated tubed tyres they are tubeless tyres fitted with tubes!!!

As I said and you seem to ignore not only do the standards contradict your opinion but so do the OEMs and the Tyre Dealerships etc and they have, without question, more relevant and professional expertise on the matter than you will ever have.

As this is fact, not my opinion, I am done on the subject...as they say don't argue with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...
Im simply posting this so others have the relevant information as opposed to purely opinionated drivel... all the best little fella!

hey look I can post totally irrelevant pictures of TUBELESS tyres blown out too but it wasn't the tube that caused it...as you can see...its tubeless!!


*Edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
"Applicable Maths" has not been a y12 subject.
Applicable Mathematics not a Yr12 subject????? haha Look in the WA column!
https://www.uq.edu.au/study/docs/ProgramsTable.pdf
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Last edited by Macca2801; 09-02-2015 at 01:23 PM. Reason: fix speed rating and evidence for the WA curriculum expert!!
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  #16  
Old 09-02-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
Expert?? Nope sorry I have never professed to being an expert, simply qualified and have the expert technical information at hand. I think you were the one quoting your resume and professing to be the expert on everything known to man ;
Your previous statement~
"But for the record...My year 12 education, Physics, Calculus, Applicable Maths and English Literature (not my best subject!!), was more than adequate for TEE and university entry. Additionally, currently lecturing on the subject of tyres, construction and repair deems me more than qualified to respond on the subject."

Others can decide.
By the way English literature is not a subject some one who is not strong with written words attempts. If your skills are weak in English normal to do English language or Standard English. "Applicable Maths" has not been a y12 subject.

" I have also provided my Barrister wife with technical reports and statements in automotive litigation cases".
such a statement is deemed to be expert opinion. Unless you wife is a "Barista" & not a "Barrister". there are only a small number of people who are seen as having the necessary knowledge, expertise & experience to provide credible statements in such matters. they do not include local workshop staff. Any good SC would know this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
The two ridiculous points you make in your post now and earlier are refuted, not by me but by the expert engineers that wrote the standards.

Firstly, any tyre that has damage to the bead seat area and after inspection deemed minor damage (minor is explained in the standard) the tyre can be repaired or if it will not hold air, permanently classified as now tubed tyre.
You have not inspected either tyre, yet they have been inspected. In my case, it was decided that the damage was minor before the tube was fitted. in the other case in the other thread the tyre fitter formed the opinion after inspecting the tyre that it was not suitable for tube fitment.
I note you do not comment on any down grade of the load or temperature rating associated with tube fitment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
This is not my opinion, this is fact and has been deemed so by engineers who have actual relevant experience and expertise on the subject, unlike you.
its your interpretation. You are not in a position to comment on mine & do not know who inspected the tyre I posted prior to fitting & after failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
Second that you cannot fit a tube to a tubeless tyre. Totally incorrect! There are some tyres obviously that manufacturers wont fit tubes to due to the speed rating of the tyre, dont recall the specific rating off hand but it it is in the standard.
I have never stated that you cant fit tubes to tubeless tyres. You are now softening your stance & admitting not all tubeless tyres are suitable for tube fitment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
Tubes are fitted to tubeless tyres on a daily basis both as Original Equipment and also by tyres fitters to Heavy vehicle, Light vehicle and also motorbikes. This is usually due to the construction of the rim and it not being a design that can hold air, ie spoked motorbike tyres, split rims etc. These are NOT specific designated tubed tyres they are tubeless tyres fitted with tubes!!!
it is the responsibility of the tyre fitter to determine the suitability of a tyre for any given application. In the previous thread you made a judgement based on a low resolution pic. A tyre fitter who inspected the actual tyre had had decided that it was not suitable for the application. Doesnt your "lecturing" extend to informing others to properly inspect a tyre before making a positive judgement on its suitability in a particular application?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
As I said and you seem to ignore not only do the standards contradict your opinion but so do the OEMs and the Tyre Dealerships etc and they have, without question, more relevant and professional expertise on the matter than you will ever have.
i have simply provided information based on my experience & opinion of others who work as tyre repair specialists. I dont place much credence in comments on the internet by some random individual who has not inspected the tyre in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
As this is fact, not my opinion, I am done on the subject...as they say don't argue with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience...
I have found a good idiot test is some one who gets spelling wrong when using a word for a second time in one line ~ "Guess common sense isn't that comman any more." idiot test fail !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
Im simply posting this so others have the relevant information as opposed to purely opinionated drivel... all the best little fella!
You appear to have your statement backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca2801 View Post
hey look I can post totally irrelevant pictures of TUBELESS tyres blown out too but it wasn't the tube that caused it...
& the cause was? Probably by now we can but hope you have learned to not express an opinion until you have inspected the tyre & reviewed the circumstances of the failure. not just looked at a picture. ~ any idiot can do that.
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  #17  
Old 21-03-2015
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Cools down guys. It's a bloody confusing world we live in. It's easy to get stuck into each other here, best to ignore and move on.

Whatever you decide to do, just be careful and have a think about it.



1. Would you run a tyre with a damaged bead.
Close to civilization, paved roads and with access to a spare tyre and help - NO
Out in remote areas, trying desperately to get out and get help.. - YES

2. Would you run a tyre with a tyre plug in the sidewall?
Same as above

3. Would you run a tube in a tyre that is damaged?
Same as above


Seen many times on telly, drivers driving on damaged tyres and sometimes only on their rims. I think the show is called "COPS?"
"bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? whatcha gonna do when they come for you!"
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