Rubicon or jk crd i need convincing either way

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by JusyApples

Surely they see how popular our Utes are given the sales of hilux and rangers.

And that's why I can't understand FCA's decision to import the 2.2 only. Australians don't want low capacity diesels which is why the Ranger is such a big seller.

We also aren't getting manuals here either. From what I've read it's autos only.

StuieG
It's a funny thing, I know a lot of people that absolutely love the 2.8 but then I've talked to a lot of people that hate it.

I was very close to buying one as I wanted a diesel but after a conversation with a mechanic who specialises in Jeeps, I changed my mind.

More than likely I'd have bought one and would have been very happy with it but now I'll wait and see what we end up with in the JL before making the decision.

[Turismo07]

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the CRD, apart from maybe the cramped grill area not allowing big radiators and trans coolers. Everything else about a CRD is no different to any other modern diesel vehicle.

Petrol's generally have a higher tolerance for lazy servicing and dirty air and fuel. Modern diesels don't, so if you care about the life of your diesel engine you will do preventative maintenance to ensure it gets clean air, clean fuel and clean oil, which adds to the cost of owning a diesel.

Most issues you hear about diesels in general is due to picking up dirty fuel. Diesel fuel contaminates a lot faster than petrol does, and then the extremely high pressure fuel system in modern diesels gets damaged easily when trying to pass dirt particles/bacteria/water/etc in the fuel (injectors nozzles are usually 2 micron). When travelling remote places, picking up contaminated diesel is very common.

These are things you should consider when deciding between petrol and a modern diesel.



Wrangler specific though, the 2.8 CRD is a decent little motor.

However it needs adequate cooling. When in stock form everything works fine. But if you load the Jeep up the coolant and auto trans fluid can get hot. Unlike a petrol where their biggest hike in temp will come from lack of airflow through the radiators (i.e. low speed driving), diesel engines get their biggest hike in temps when they are made to work (i.e. towing at hwy speeds, going up a long hill, turning large tyres at hwy speeds with incorrect gearing). Sounds like you will be making the JK work, so I would suggest factoring in cooling system upgrades, nothing drastic, but at least a upgraded clutch fan and upgraded auto trans cooler.

If you're buying 2014+ CRD model, then the diff gearing will be pretty much right for 33-35" tyres in either auto or manual. I know the manuals have 3.73 ratios, I think the autos are the same with NAG1 auto trans.



Fuel economy varies a lot between vehicles... People drive differently, if they have roof racks, how heavy their Jeep is, how lifted it is, has it been tuned, exhaust mods, snorkel fitted, what type of tyre they have, etc etc.

Anyway, I have a 2009 CRD manual, snorkel, dyno tuned, 3" exhaust from the turbo back, all barwork, slimline roof rack, 2" lift.

With 3.21 diff ratios and 33" mud tyres, city driving was 11.5L/100km, and hwy was about 11L/100km. When I go on long trips and the JK is fully loaded with gear and stuff up on the roof rack, and I drive it very nicely (don't floor it to get as fast as I can up hills etc, just take it easy) the economy was 11.5L/100km.

Now with 4.11 diff ratios and 35" extreme mud tyres, city driving is 12.5L/100km, hwy is 11.5-12L/100km, and fully loaded long trip is 12.5-13/100km. (I am sure that if I went to a all terrain tyre these numbers would come down, as my current tyres are very heavy, they are 12kg each heavier than my last set of tyres...)



The Rubicon vs CRD Sport argument is tough. For hard tracks, you can't beat the Rubicon for out of the box ability, yes they are fundamentally the same vehicle but the Rubi has all the fruit. But this fruit can be added to a CRD Sport (for an extra cost obviously) but it is not financially viable to put a CRD into a Rubi. At the other end of the spectrum, as a tourer the CRD Sport is better cos its more economical and you can go further without carrying extra fuel (long range tanks can be had for both petrol and diesel), and better suited to fording water.

Also, it can be argued that, some of the fruit is not really worth it. If you're only running 33" tyres (even 35" is ok) then you don't need the D44 front diff and neither do you need 31 spline axles. Regarding diff, what you do need is stronger axle tubes/housing but both Sport and Rubi have the same strength tubes and bracketry so no benefit there (just upgrade to a Teraflex housing or similar if you are worried). The Rubi transfer case is great for rock crawling and slow technical obstacles, but is too slow for other types of offroading (IMO), especially in a diesel (much lower redline and peak torque is at 2,000 rpm), with my normal 2.72:1 transfer case I am in 6th gear low range to do 50kmh on the beach for example (if the beach is not that boggy then I will use high range, but with a Rubi case there would too big of a jump between high and low). Elec sway bar disconnect would be a nice feature to have though, but my JKS discos cost $200 and its not that hard to disconnect them myself. Front and rear lockers is nice too, and who wouldn't have them if you could, but you don't 'need' lockers to go touring, and out of the box a JK Sport with only traction control is still the most capable 4wd off the showroom floor, only better'ed by a JK Rubi.

[Krump_7]

Hey guys and girls. Thanks heaps for the replies and insights. Has really given me food for thought. Im apprehensive about the jeep crd as ive only ever had a petrol 4wd, so really trying to learn all i can before the time comes to make a purchase. Thanks heaps for the replies and the in depth responses. Ive joined the crd facebook page and had a squizz through there. And trawled thousands of posts and thread's on this site, and have nutted it down to the 2 choices. Plenty of crd information on this forum up intil about 2013 ish then not many posts, would be good to hear of more recent crd experiences. I was watching a youtube series called sidetracked in which the wrangler they had crapped it self. Is there any specific reason these cars seem to crap out or is purely just down to servicing neglect?

Might have to go enroll in a diesel mechanics course at tafe to learn more ahah.

Cheers
Brad.

[OzRick25]

Originally Posted by Krump_7

Hey guys and girls. Thanks heaps for the replies and insights. Has really given me food for thought. Im apprehensive about the jeep crd as ive only ever had a petrol 4wd, so really trying to learn all i can before the time comes to make a purchase. Thanks heaps for the replies and the in depth responses. Ive joined the crd facebook page and had a squizz through there. And trawled thousands of posts and thread's on this site, and have nutted it down to the 2 choices. Plenty of crd information on this forum up intil about 2013 ish then not many posts, would be good to hear of more recent crd experiences. I was watching a youtube series called sidetracked in which the wrangler they had crapped it self. Is there any specific reason these cars seem to crap out or is purely just down to servicing neglect?

Might have to go enroll in a diesel mechanics course at tafe to learn more ahah.

Cheers
Brad.

It's not really service neglect it's just preventative actions that you wouldn't know about some of which aren't a Jeep or wrangler specific thing but more modern crd and emission laws thing.

If I was to buy a new wrangler crd the first things I'd do just to be confident in it would be:

an additional water seperating fuel filter (replaced every 2nd service)
A new trans cooler
Higher flow grill and possibly bonnet
exhaust temp pyro close to the turbo
Possibly upgrading the radiator and fan too

And if you want to keep a modern crd long term

EGR blank and tune
DPF delete
Crank case vent catch can and probably vent to atmosphere

After all that you have already dropped an additional few grand and can kiss your warranty goodbye

[Grahame]

I started out with a 2010 JKU CRD auto with offroad group (rear locker and front disconnect), it had a 2.5" AEV lift, front and rear bars, rock rails, winch, snorkel and long range tank, pretty much everything the OP wants except the roof rack. In 2016 I traded the CRD for an new JKU Rubi, primarily because it's my daily drive and it's only 6 km to work and the short trips would eventually kill the diesel. I transferred all the accessories and the tyres from the 2010 model onto the Rubi except the long range tank and the snorkel which were too hard to remove so I bought them new for the new car. Am I happy with my decision to go from the CRD to the Rubi? ... bloody oath I am.

For me the stand out features of the Rubi over the CRD is the transfer case and the absence of overheating problems in the Rubi. Just about all of my off-roading is in the High Country and the auto CRD has virtually nil engine braking on steep hills even when it's locked in first low. My CRD chewed out a set of brake pads in 27,000 km. With the Rubi I'm nowhere near touching the brakes as much as the CRD.

Do a bit of searching on this site for all the problems with CRD transmissions overheating. In my opinion Jeep designed JK for a petrol engine and then went casting about for a diesel so they could sell it into markets outside the US. Whilst the VM Motori engine is a great engine it is not a happy pairing with the Wrangler. I had the Hot Oil light come on more than once and whilst I don't have an issue buying upgrades and accessories for the car, I do object to having to spend money to upgrade the car just to make it perform within normal parameters. The transmission temps in my Rubi seldom vary more than 10 deg C, the CRD transmission would frequently be up in the 120 degree range (Hot Oil warning goes off at 135 deg).

As for fuel consumption, around town they are both about the same provided you don't drive the 3.6 petrol like you stole it. I get around 14 lt/100. The CRD was slightly better but not that much. On the highway the CRD is better by about 2 lt/100 (the Rubi is still better than my mates 3lt CRD Patrol on the highway which is my happiness benchmark). To put that into perspective that's only about $3 extra per 100 km. Off-road in low range the petrol engine chews the juice noticeably more CRD but I don't really have any firm figures.

Where the CRD really shone was towing. I have a 14' hybrid caravan and the CRD towed it with ease, although I really had to keep an eye on the transmission temps. The 3.6 feels the weight a bit more but I enjoy the drive more because I don't need to worry about cooking the transmission. The fuel consumption is about 3-4 lt/100 more with the petrol when towing but for the amount of towing I do per annum I can live with the extra expense.

As someone on this forum once said, you never see anyone on here with buyer's remorse from buying a Rubi.

[Krump_7]

Thanks graham great reading in your post. My patrol chews 25 or so litres p/h kms off road. Is the rubi anywhere near those stupid figures? I can see the 2 versions using close to same fuel figures on road give or take some. Love to hear off road ball park figures, being fully aware of driving style affecting the numbers aswel as the terrain types. Fully loaded touring type stuff id be happy with 17 to 18 litres p/h from a petrol. From watching you tube a diesel pushing 16 or so kms p/h seems to be the norm off road. Is this an unrealistic expectation of the wranglers?

Cheers
Brad.

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by Krump_7

Thanks graham great reading in your post. My patrol chews 25 or so litres p/h kms off road. Is the rubi anywhere near those stupid figures?

Cheers
Brad.

My old 3.8L JK fully loaded and towing a camper trailer doesn't even use anywhere near that.