WH 5.7 Engine Oil

[bjm]

Actually the 5.7 Hemi with MDS came out in 2005 in US.Its not actually variable valve timing but deactivation of a number of cylinders when cruising etc to give better fuel economy. For whatever the reason there seems to be little info re cam lifter failure of this early motor even though nearly identical in all respects to the present day engine.In the last 3 weeks I have seen at least 3 late model WK 2 SRT8 s on Gumtree advertising new cams etc fitted. Oils ,service intervals ,etc probably have a bearing on the cam lifter failures in these motors. The hemi engine rebuilders here and in US I contacted all said in their opinion the block has two basic problems. ,low oil splash on cam and cam lifter angles .Suffice to say the problem is still happening on rebuilt motors with aftermarket cams ,lifters etc

[Classic Boy]

Been in the auto industry from the late 70’s and in my experience the cam lubrication problem if it was the main cause would have manifested itself on local valiant cars from 67 onwards when the first mopar small block was offered locally.
Yet it cam wear was never a problem on these thousands of small blocks from the 60’s, 70’s And 80’s.
Remembering these were all flat tappet engines which are way more prone to wear than roller rocker cams on the modern version. Because Flat tappet lifter slides on the lobe rather than rolls on the lobe as in roller cams.
The cam is in the same spot and lifter angles the same and Yet the cam survived satisfactorily on splash lube.
Also arguably modern motor oils are better than oils of old.

[bjm]

The respected engine re builder I spoke to on the Gold Coast builds many high hp hemi motors for street and strip said the newer Gen 3 hemis had a number of oil gallery changes plus other mods and are not identical to the earlier ones.He stated that he would not rebuild a late model hemi motor and put any sort of warranty on it due to the failures he has seen in cams and roller lifters.both OE and aftermarket ,FCA in US have basically admitted there is a problem in the engine but are dragging the chain in attempting a fix.A slight change in OE roller lifters design has not fixed the problem.This may change with more and more Rams,Grand Cherokees having problems.

[JamesLaugesen]

Originally Posted by bjm

Actually the 5.7 Hemi with MDS came out in 2005 in US.Its not actually variable valve timing but deactivation of a number of cylinders when cruising etc to give better fuel economy. For whatever the reason there seems to be little info re cam lifter failure of this early motor even though nearly identical in all respects to the present day engine.In the last 3 weeks I have seen at least 3 late model WK 2 SRT8 s on Gumtree advertising new cams etc fitted. Oils ,service intervals ,etc probably have a bearing on the cam lifter failures in these motors. The hemi engine rebuilders here and in US I contacted all said in their opinion the block has two basic problems. ,low oil splash on cam and cam lifter angles .Suffice to say the problem is still happening on rebuilt motors with aftermarket cams ,lifters etc

Yep the Gen 3 hemi got MDS in 2005, but then got VVT in 2009.
It sounds like there were quite a lot of changes in the VVT engines, largely around oil supply to the valvetrain.

See https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...-hemi-anatomy/
Just a random article I found via Google'ing, but the info in it seems to be repeated in many other articles/discussions.

A particularly interesting line is;

Chrysler included provisions for a “multiple displacement system” (MDS) in the original design, so the main oil galleries were used to supply oil directly to the solenoids that disabled the lifters and the oil for the lifters came down through the pushrods from the rockers up topside.

I wonder if that means the lifters in the VVT engines are not lubricated directly through the pushrods, which I've seen a couple of builders claim.
That could be a significant difference between the non-VVT and VVT engines and explain the apparent lack of lifter failures/cam wear on non-VVT engines.

At-least that's what I'm hoping for, since I have an '06 .

[bjm]

The failures are happening even when mds vvt is deleted .The consensus of opinion among all the major hemi rebuilders I have contacted here and US is there is a inherent design prob re lubrication plus cam to lifter alignment .Plus just maybe oil specs are not suiting this motor.Many different lifters now available but none seem to have solved the prob.I see in the states a class action against FCA may be underway soon re this prob,

[JamesLaugesen]

Originally Posted by bjm

The failures are happening even when mds vvt is deleted .The consensus of opinion among all the major hemi rebuilders I have contacted here and US is there is a inherent design prob re lubrication plus cam to lifter alignment .Plus just maybe oil specs are not suiting this motor.Many different lifters now available but none seem to have solved the prob.I see in the states a class action against FCA may be underway soon re this prob,

Just to be clear, MDS and VVT are different things.
The Gen 3 got MDS in 2005 (without VVT.), then got VVT in 2009.
The cam/lifter failures being reported seem to be for 2009+ engines (ie, engines with VVT.).

My point is that the changes made to the Gen 3 engines for VVT may be the inherent design problem you mention, re; lubrication, etc.
ie, if VVT engines don't lubricate the lifters directly via the pushrods like the non-VVT engines apparently do, that could be the lubrication issue.

VVT can't be "deleted" per-se... unless the engine is rebuilt back to a non-VVT spec somehow haha. The VVT phaser could kind've be disabled to lock the timing, but the engine is still the same.

In other words, the lubrication issue might be caused by the changes made for VVT, regardless of whether VVT is actually operating.