Home Brew Steering - AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM Jeep News Australia and New Zealand


Go Back   AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM Jeep News Australia and New Zealand > JEEP GARAGE > Rock Crawling


Portal Register Forums Trading Your Jeep New Garage Mark All Read

Post New Thread  Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-08-2005
Jimmyb's Avatar
Jimmyb  Jimmyb is offline
Head Honcho
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,587
What Jeep do I drive?: XJ
Likes: 877
Liked 925 Times in 539 Posts
Check out my Ride(s)
Default Home Brew Steering

Read first.....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ng/index2.html

Have Orbital Valve and Ram..........have 351 Cleveland to drive the Pump, so thinking power steering pump.............and then..........
  #2  
Old 08-08-2005
zzzz's Avatar
zzzz  zzzz is offline
Full Flexer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: melbourne
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Mate - I hope that ram is going to work out for you.
Where did you get the orbital valve?

Quote - "Enterprising 'wheelers initially began by adapting agricultural and industrial hydrostatic steering systems to recreational 4x4s. However, due to the nature of hydrostatic steering, this approach can have wildly varying results, depending on the match between the steering system being cannibalized or emulated, and the desired performance of the 4x4 in question."

Drop Shane a line if you want to chat about his setup.
He might run into some similar issues or have some good tips.

cheers

z
Sponsored Posts
  #3  
Old 08-08-2005
Jimmyb's Avatar
Jimmyb  Jimmyb is offline
Head Honcho
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,587
What Jeep do I drive?: XJ
Likes: 877
Liked 925 Times in 539 Posts
Check out my Ride(s)
Default

The differance with Shanes is that it was an imported kit, this thing I am trying to understand and build is a budget system to try and get to work. Have spoken to lots of people, and yeah can get off the shelf kits from min of $2500 (which I dont have spare) but wheres the fun in that, wanna try and learn and develop. Not everyone has mega bucks, and getting back to my inital plans of this rig, its a budget build.

ps. no disrespect intended towards shane on the cash expenses.
  #4  
Old 08-08-2005
zzzz's Avatar
zzzz  zzzz is offline
Full Flexer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: melbourne
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyB
The differance with Shanes is that it was an imported kit, this thing I am trying to understand and build is a budget system to try and get to work. Have spoken to lots of people, and yeah can get off the shelf kits from min of $2500 (which I dont have spare) but wheres the fun in that, wanna try and learn and develop. Not everyone has mega bucks, and getting back to my inital plans of this rig, its a budget build.

ps. no disrespect intended towards shane on the cash expenses.
I fully understand what you are trying to accomplish and think it is cool that you are building to a budget.

The reason I told you to drop Shane a line is so that he can share the knowledge has has gained through installing the full hydro on his jeep.
Even though he bought a "kit" from ABT/USA there was still a lot of custom stuff to to get it working, and even now he is redoing some of it to incorporate a big fluid cooler and shorten up the lines.
It has not been a simple bolt in job at all.

Just thought he would have some valuable info thats all.

cheers

z
Sponsored Posts
  #5  
Old 09-08-2005
wendle  wendle is offline
Senior Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

i have built a couple of systems using the forklift/ag gear, it is pretty easy, but there is a couple of things to watch out for. first thing is to make sure your orbital is open centre. easiest way to do this is hook all your lines up, leave the low pressure return line sitting in the top of the resivoir, fire the motor up with the steering sitting idle, and make sure there is fluid running back out the return line. a closed centre valve won't do this, and will destroy your pump straight away. the next thing is to make sure the valve is not load reactive. load reactive valving works very well with a double ended, balanced ram, but it will not work with your single ended ram, and will eventually destroy the valve.
you also want to make your low pressure return line as big as possible. i think my last setup was 9/16" pressure lines and 3/4" return line.
if your motor has the big ford teardrop style pump with the built in resivoir you are laughing, you get a big res (you need this with a single ended ram as the fluid level needs to rise and fall with the ram action) and the res is built onto the pump, so you don't need another short line between res and pump. they also have a vented cap, so you can get rid of the relief valve in your drawing, but you really should look at sealing the cap and running a vent hose off it. that shit gets messy when you are upside-down.
  #6  
Old 09-08-2005
FireTruck's Avatar
FireTruck  FireTruck is offline
Full Flexer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Hey Jimmy,

I can't say that I have a huge amount of experience with setting up hydro systems, but I did do my research and chose the kit that would give me the most complete system, at a good price, and with proven performance. I also had a hydro assist system to sell to offset the cost, and the POS kit comes with heim joints and clevis ends so it is very complete. With the double ended cylinder you don't need a tie rod, so that saved some $$ as well.

When I did the math, I found that for me it was cheaper to go full hydro through POS and Sean at ABT rather than re-working my hydro assist system...

That's why I went with the double ended cylinder POS setup through Sean at ABT... this is the same system as Bill is talking about in the link that you have above.

Here's a few things I have picked up - and take note of Wendle's too. The vacuum line from the reservoir to the pump should be as short as possible, and at least -10 rated. In general I have seen recomendations of no longer than 16" in places, and no longer than a couple of feet in places, and no longer than a foot in places... basically as short as possible, and keep the vented reservoir as high as possible.

Mounting the control valve with the ports facing up is also important.

And make sure you factor hydro lines into your build up budget, because they aint cheap and you need to go for quality crimped fittings on quality lines if you want reliability.

I am also adding a cooler to my system - recommended by POS, but haven't got it in yet. Cummins were kind enough to donate me a brand spankin oil cooler (heat exchanger) with 1/2" lines (tube and fin style) and 1/2" fittings... the fittings should be 1/2" or -8 otherwise the pressure drop across the cooler will be too large, and you can actually heat the fluid rather than cool it. If the line between the reservoir and the pump is too long the back pressure can cause cavitation in the pump and aerate the fluid (trust me on this one). Running without a cooler can cause the same thing as the vapour pressure of the hot fluid rises.

And finally, the pump, control valve, and cylinder are matched to give you your desired performance. This depends on the type of cylinder, flow of the pump, and the control valve. I asked for about 3 turns lock to lock, and that's what I got.

I'm sure there's more, but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

S.
__________________
MY'13 JKU Rubi

Build thread:
http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...d.php?t=121388
Sponsored Posts
  #7  
Old 09-08-2005
Jimmyb's Avatar
Jimmyb  Jimmyb is offline
Head Honcho
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 12,587
What Jeep do I drive?: XJ
Likes: 877
Liked 925 Times in 539 Posts
Check out my Ride(s)
Default

Thanks guys, some good feedback there. I guess my other motivation behind building the system up is to learn more and understand what does what a bit better. Its funny how a off the shelf kits seems to leave a bit to be desired in terms of coolers etc. Seems it is more a starter kit in some respects? Will be getting Enzed to cruise up and plumb it all in for me when the time comes.

Have the tie rod section sussed, and think we have worked out how the spear will be mounted, the tie rod will be going up, ie doing a high steer conversion on the existing setup but will use joints at the end.

Will be rewarding once its all working, but I can only see from what I am reading that getting it all working is part a, part b is getting it to run right
  #8  
Old 09-08-2005
FireTruck's Avatar
FireTruck  FireTruck is offline
Full Flexer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Default

...the other thing that I didn't mention was that with a single ended cylinder, you get more turning force in one direction than you do in the other - due to the displacement of the shaft on one side.

With a single ended cylinder I am not sure how it would behave in regards to return to centre either... not that it should matter much for a rockcrawler, but with the POS system it returns to centre when driving just like any other regular steering setup.

S.
__________________
MY'13 JKU Rubi

Build thread:
http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/...d.php?t=121388
  #9  
Old 09-08-2005
Wooders's Avatar
Wooders  Wooders is offline
Time to tinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: www.wooders.com.au
Posts: 10,788
What Jeep do I drive?: CJ
Likes: 134
Liked 447 Times in 232 Posts
Default

Hey Shane is the Firetruck headed to Unrego'ed territory with full Hydro steer?
My engineer wouldn't have a bar of it unless we were talking tractor rego. (although he will allow rear with a mechanical lockout).
Post New Thread  Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


» Advertisements_AS2


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3



All times are GMT +10. The time now is 10:28 PM.




AJOR does not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of AJOR or any entity associated with AJOR, nor should any advice be substituted as technical advice replacing that of a mechanic. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use AJOR to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, religious, political or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by AJOR. The owner, administrators and moderators of AJOR reserve the right to delete any message or members for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless AJOR, the administrators, moderators, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). The use of profile signatures to intentionally mislead or misdirect any member on this forum is not acceptable and may result in your account being suspended. Any trip that is organised through the AJOR forum is participated at your own risk. If you or your vehicle is damaged it is your responsibility, not that of the person that posted the thread, message or topic initiating the trip, nor the organisers of AJOR or moderators of any specific forum. This forum and associated website is the property of AJOR.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

AJOR 2002 - 2019 AUSJEEPOFFROAD.COM. All corporate trademarked names and logos are property of their respective owners. Ausjeepoffroad is in no way associated with DaimlerChrysler Corporation or Fiat Jeep.
www.ausjeep.com www.ausjeep.com.au www.midlifemate.com ausjeepforum.com Jeep Wrangler JL Australia release
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=