Civilian Owned Firearms, what do we think?

[GariJ]

Originally Posted by Wombat756

While I have no problem with bows (nor with guns) your comparison of speed of projectile conveniently ignores the projectile weight. The average .223 round has a projectile weight of around 50 grains (I have 45 and 55 in my safe). An arrow would be many times heavier than this. The energy delivered to the intended target with a bow wouldn't be that far behind the energy delivered by my .223, and would be vastly more than my .22

Okay cut me some slack here it’s been a while since my first year physics but here goes.
There are a lot of variables here so I will simply look at the kinetic energy likey you asked. And I didn’t conveniently exclude it I just assumed everyone would be thinking along the same lines.
So removing penetration rates as these can’t be compared.
Lets assume the aqrrow weighs 30g arrow travels around 80ms (rough conversions)
The bullet 5g around 950ms? (rough conversions)
KE=1/2MV2
So the arrow .015 * 6400= 96J
The bullet .0025 * 902500= 2256J
So you can see again not even comparable.
The equation for kinetic energy is directly proportional to the square of its speed.
For a four fold increase in speed you get a sixteen fold increase in kinetic energy.

[GariJ]

Originally Posted by aido_3927

The way you're thinking is on the right track Wombat but I went and grabbed some stats off a couple sites for comparison.

Chuck Hawks:
The standard velocity .22 Long Rifle takes a wax coated 40 grain RN lead bullet to a muzzle velocity of 1,138 fps. The muzzle energy is 116 ft. lbs. in a standard 22" rifle test barrel. The 40 grain .22 LR bullet has a sectional density (SD) of .216. This is a widely used and economical practice load, excellent for plinking.

Huntersfriend:
Kinetic energy of an arrow can be found by using the formula KE=(mv²)/450,240 where m is the mass of the arrow in grains and v is the velocity of the arrow in fps. The 450,240 just sorts out all the units and converts things from fps & grains to ft-lbs. So if your new bow setup ultimately shoots a 400 grain arrow at a respectable 250 fps, your actual kinetic energy or "knock down power" will be:
KE=(mv²)/450,240
KE=[(400)(250²)]/450,240 KE=25,000,000/450,240
KE=55.53 ft-lbs

The difference with bows is that they have far more momentum behind the arrows, a 22 will have a very hard time killing a deer but a 600 grain arrow with about 60-70 odd ft-lbs should take one down without much of a problem.

NB: this is my understanding, happy to be corrected.

The formula is wrong] you need to half the mass.

[aido_3927]

Originally Posted by GariJ

The formula is wrong] you need to half the mass.

I wouldn't know, I pulled it straight off that site just for the comparison. Luckily you put in your own formula for those reading

[GariJ]

And that 1200fps muzzle velocity must be from a black powder musket lol.

[Banshee]

Originally Posted by drover

Why anyone would need an AR15, AK47 or any sort of assault rifle in civvy street beggars belief or for that matter carrying a pistol to go shopping.

Just to be clear. There is a common misunderstanding, (fostered by the media who like the headlines), that an AR15 is an 'assault weapon'. It isn't. By definition assault weapons are selectable between semi-automatic & fully automatic rifles. So the M16 is, but an AR15 the civilian derivative, is not and never has been.

AK 47s can be either full or semi auto, (I believe), so may be classed as assault weapons, depending on model.

[GariJ]

Originally Posted by yumpet

wow that's what you call a loaded question!!!

(every pun intended)


The one thing i always come back to is the fact the people who have guns, don't care if you don't, its only the people who don't have guns that care about the people who do.

I have 7 rifles, all locked away - you know what i've never shot anything moving with them. I shoot paper, is that a bad thing? its a sport, obviously this thread was just meant to troll us all and it works

It appears you havent taken the time to read all of the posts because that is not what this is about. I dont think anyone has posted that they have an issue with people owning guns. Its the regulations. This thread is not intended to troll its to spark debate. I'm happy with anyone owning a gun as are 95% of people here. The contention has only ever been A) a gun for protection is in my opinion foolish and illegal. B) I dont believe the health risks of owning a gun are out weighed by the health benefit. Own as many as you like.

[GariJ]

Originally Posted by Banshee

Just to be clear. There is a common misunderstanding, (fostered by the media who like the headlines), that an AR15 is an 'assault weapon'. It isn't. By definition assault weapons are fully automatic rifles. So the M16 is, but an AR15, civilian derivative is not and never has been.

AK 47s can be either full or semi auto, (I believe), so may be classed as assault weapons, depending on model.

I’m not exactly a gun guru but I thought by definition and assault rifle had to be interchangeable between semi and auto and have a magazine.