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  #15  
Old 04-02-2014
scottroy  scottroy is offline
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Default High Oil Pressure damn it!

So where does one get a new sender unit for a diesel


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  #16  
Old 03-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANKIDOWNUNDER View Post
The figures I gave are from the Jeep manual. My ZG has the same engine as the XJ, 4Ltr 6 cyl. With 243000 Km on the clock my hot oil pressure readings are 3.5bar idle and 4.3 Bar at 2000 Rpm (using 14.2psi = 1 Bar). I use HPR 10 (10W 50) full synthetic oil and aRyco Z89 filter. I mention this because oil viscosity and /or poor filter can affect oil pressure readings. Usually a stuck pressure relief valve will cause very high pressure at startup with cold oil, pressure can be in excess of 120 psi. this would likely cause your filter to burst or distort. When the engine is hot the relief valve is usually fully closed so as to maintain sufficient pressure. Most oil pump problems are due to wear causing too low an oil pressure. If your oil pressure is within the manufacturers limits I would leave well alone and not touch the oil pump. The variation between old and new sender units could be explained by resistance variation inside the unit, as they age so the resistance changes this is why it is important to check the actual pressure using a master gauge. According to the Chrysler manual the relief valve is not adjustable so it may also not be repairable, does anyone know for sure?.
Does anyone know if the relief valve is repairable? Or do I have to get a new oil pump? From Franki's comments, I think this is the problem I have. My oil light seems to come on in the morning, but once the engine has heated up the oil light goes away. It also seems to go off if I change up a gear and lower the RPMs. I use fully synthetic oil and the no cheap filters. I changed the sender and the problem went away for a week or so, but now it's back again. The master gauge shows oil pressures within normal levels. I have ordered an electric oil pressure gauge to mount internally which may help with diagnosis, but obviously won't help until I receive and install it. The ECU came up with 2 logs when I went to the mechanic on Tuesday - one low pressure and one high pressure; and I think the low pressure may have been when I changed the oil sender. The oil light came on again pretty much as soon as I left the mechanic on Tuesday on a cold engine, but as normal, the engine warmed up and it went away. I'm going back to the mechanic tomorrow to see what the ECU logs are this time, but I'm thinking it will show high pressure only as I haven't touched the oil sender.

Anyway - does anyone know if the relief valve it repairable?!

I have a 2007 JK Wrangler CRD by the way but I assume the problem would be similar.

I'll let you know the result when I get to the bottom of it.
  #17  
Old 03-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruggz351 View Post
Dunno Layback.

My 4.0 XJ has has phenomenal oil pressure. My standard gauge reads OFF the clock. I also have an aftermarket electrical gauge that also reads off the scale, it goes to 100 psi. At idle, it'll read just under 90 psi.
I've tried those engine oil flushes a coupla times, but no change.
It doesn't use oil, no major leaks.
Meh.

cheers
I've since replaced my aftermarket electric with an aftermarket mechanical gauge and my pressure is actually reading normal.

So, murphy obviously had a bit to do with it... ee lec trickery ....
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  #18  
Old 03-04-2014
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Default Re: High Oil Pressure damn it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono83 View Post
Does anyone know if the relief valve is repairable? Or do I have to get a new oil pump? From Franki's comments, I think this is the problem I have. My oil light seems to come on in the morning, but once the engine has heated up the oil light goes away. It also seems to go off if I change up a gear and lower the RPMs. I use fully synthetic oil and the no cheap filters. I changed the sender and the problem went away for a week or so, but now it's back again. The master gauge shows oil pressures within normal levels. I have ordered an electric oil pressure gauge to mount internally which may help with diagnosis, but obviously won't help until I receive and install it. The ECU came up with 2 logs when I went to the mechanic on Tuesday - one low pressure and one high pressure; and I think the low pressure may have been when I changed the oil sender. The oil light came on again pretty much as soon as I left the mechanic on Tuesday on a cold engine, but as normal, the engine warmed up and it went away. I'm going back to the mechanic tomorrow to see what the ECU logs are this time, but I'm thinking it will show high pressure only as I haven't touched the oil sender.

Anyway - does anyone know if the relief valve it repairable?!

I have a 2007 JK Wrangler CRD by the way but I assume the problem would be similar.

I'll let you know the result when I get to the bottom of it.
It seems the pressure relief valve is gummed up. This would explain why it goes off when the engine is hot and at low revs. Increasing rpm increases oil pressure and increases the flow through the valve. Worst case could be main bearings but let's leave that one for now. Does the rocker cover look carboned up or "gunky" when you take the filler cap off and look into it? What I would do is get a bottle of Nulon oil flush and pour it in. It says on the bottle to let it idle for 1/2 an hour and drain and refill the oil with a new filter. What I would be doing in your case is to actually drive it for that 1/2 hour as you will be varying rpm and pushing it through the motor under load. This will not harm the engine at all. Drain the oil, put a new filter on and fill with correct grade oil and let us know what happens. In severe cases you may have to do this twice. Second time without.changing the filter. See how you go...:thumbup:

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  #19  
Old 04-04-2014
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I've been meaning to update this thread since rebuilding my oil pump a couple of weeks ago.

+1 on Rastus' suggestion (I personally would not suggest using flush in a manner other than the manufacturer directions) if your problem is high oil pressure, you most likely have a blockage somewhere.

Jono83, the pressure relief valve is replaceable, but not repairable. The pressure relief valve would NOT be the cause of LOW oil pressure.....by design. Are you sure your light is coming on for low pressure? What about high pressure? The only way to tell definitively is to put on a gauge). If your near the Parramatta area, you can come round and use mine). You may well find you are suffering from high oil pressure rather then low.....your symptoms support this (cold oil and higher revs generate your light), although the 'spanner in the works' is your gauge showing normal values (gauge issue?). Again, the only definitive test is to measure pressure with a gauge.

Regarding my issue, after an oil pump rebuild, there is no change.

I still see similar pressures, albeit with a noticeable difference in pressure at idle when the oil is at running temp. Still nowhere near within spec though.

There was no problem with the gears, valve (and obviously) the spring that I replaced with the rebuild kit.

The bottom cover of the oil pump, that the gears bottom out on, showed some wear, but nothing significant.

What I did notice when manually priming up the engine before start, was that oil flow through the pushrods for cylinder number 5 was significantly slower than the rest. This would suggest a partial blockage of the gallery/pushrod that feeds this cylinder. Is a partial blockage in the feed to this cylinder enough to send pressures so high? I don't know. But I'm inclined to think so. I was pushing it for time at the time, so did not even contemplate removing that pushrod and checking it out...obviously regret this now....but that's easy enough to do at some stage in the future (when the wife gets over the time out I took to work on the car this time :-P ).

The FSM details a procedure to blow out the oil galleries with compressed air, but this involves motor OUT to get galleries in the rear of the block....and strip to get other galleries. I don't have that sort of time as it's my daily drive.

So, while my problem is HIGH oil pressure, I'm just going to live with it and keep an ear out for any knocks that indicate a total blockage....and worry about it then.

If your problem IS low oil pressure on the other hand, then maybe, yes, your oil pump gears are worn (I can't imagine how this could happen, they're really chunky gears), or perhaps a leak or blockage in your oil pickup or pump (Good luck trying to get a new oil pick up in Australia (the FSM warns not to disturb the oil pick up and that a new one must be installed if the old one is disturbed or removed...reason: it's an oversize (6 thou) press fit, supposedly for a vacuum seal....I had no choice but to put my old one back on, which seemed to be a nice tight fit....and I smeared it with rtv to be sure....works fine, but time will tell)......None of the main stream Repco etc suppliers even listed one. Jeep quoted a 3-4 week wait for it to come in from O/S, so that could be a 6-8 week wait. Rockauto does sell one.....oh and you need a 'special tool' to fit the oil pickup...youtube it....you can get around it if you're extra handy.

To recap, you next step is to identify exactly which problem you have...high or low oil pressure. If low, drop your sump and investigate, potentially clean/replace pickup/pump gears. If high, run a series of flushes, at least two back to back.

Last edited by kario; 04-04-2014 at 09:04 AM.
  #20  
Old 05-04-2014
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Just to close the thread off from my end, all the symptoms appeared to be high oil pressure. Going to get the logs the second time high oil pressure was what I was expecting, but no - it was low! We hooked up the computer to the ECU to get a live feed and the oil voltage was fluctuating as it should at the correct level however the oil pressure was a stagnant (should've been fluctuating like the voltage) and reading 1001PSI! When on the master gauge on Tuesday pressures were slightly high but fine and relief valve was letting go when it should. Although the oil sender was new, the live feed on the ECU oil pressure was weird so we thought we'd try another sender assuming that one was faulty, and hey presto - no oil light! I gave it an hour of semi flogging last night and went for an hour drive on a cold engine this morning and everything seems fine.

I will do the oil flush on next 5,000km oil drop however as I only just bought the thing.

Thanks for the suggestions.
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