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22-05-2018
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Senior Newbie
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 90 What Jeep do I drive?: WK2
Likes: 11
Liked 52 Times in 26 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboots
A 2600kg van really should have more than 180kg on the coupling. That's right at the thin edge as far as stability is concerned.
Cheers, Steve
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Why? It's 7% ball weight and European vans run as low as 5%. Australia really is one of the only places that has this fascination with a 10% ball weight.
It's the load distribution that is more cause for concern and if distributed properly, then I wouldn't be concerned about a 7% ball weight.
As for a WDH, I would use one as recommended. What's the harm and if it improves the ride and handling then that's a good thing.
__________________
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited | V6 Diesel | True Blue | List of mods has just commenced.....
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22-05-2018
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 284 What Jeep do I drive?: WK2
Likes: 54
Liked 111 Times in 73 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bad4u
Why? It's 7% ball weight and European vans run as low as 5%. Australia really is one of the only places that has this fascination with a 10% ball weight.
It's the load distribution that is more cause for concern and if distributed properly, then I wouldn't be concerned about a 7% ball weight.
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There's the "why". Typical Australian vans tend to get end heavy due to internal layout, the position of storage locations and the amount of stuff that gets included in the pack. If you could keep all the van's weight directly over the axle/s then virtually zero ball weight would still remain stable.
I might have gained an incorrect impression from casual reading of the American market, but I thought they tended to run higher percentages on the ball too? From the same half interest, I thought European vans invariably had considerably less available payload? They're certainly not built with substantial materials like local vans.
Cheers, Steve
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23-05-2018
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Senior Newbie
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 90 What Jeep do I drive?: WK2
Likes: 11
Liked 52 Times in 26 Posts
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Hey Barboots
I agree with you about the weight distribution which is why I think focusing on 10% ball weight is wrong. I would rather tow a van with a lower ball weight and good weight distribution than a van with 10%+ ball weight and poor distribution.
I've seen (and spoken to) plenty of people who think they are OK because they have 10% on the ball, but have tool boxes, generators, etc, hanging off the back bumper and the nose of the car up in the air affecting their steering....... no thanks.
But I think the biggest problem is people towing vans that are heavier than their car (simple physics says you are asking for problems). This isn't helped by the car manufacturers and the LIES they tell about towing capacity, especially in the dual cab market.
/rant over
Cheers
Warren
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2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited | V6 Diesel | True Blue | List of mods has just commenced.....
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23-05-2018
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Full Flexer
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 575 What Jeep do I drive?: None
Likes: 137
Liked 125 Times in 103 Posts
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Caravan owners in Australia only do 80kph max so it doesn't really matter that much.
Either that or they crash and the problem solves itself with hopefully zero innocent parties hurt.
Towing over a certain weight should absolutely require a license endorsement to teach some of the basics instead of the current focus on airbags, 10% and wdh but there is far too much money involved in the industry for that to happen imo.
__________________
MY15 GC CRDSTU lift, Mopar rock rails, underbody protection. Chief sump guard, hooks.
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24-05-2018
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RubiconSlammer
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,289 What Jeep do I drive?: WK2
Likes: 1,429
Liked 1,285 Times in 682 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bad4u
Hey Barboots
I agree with you about the weight distribution which is why I think focusing on 10% ball weight is wrong. I would rather tow a van with a lower ball weight and good weight distribution than a van with 10%+ ball weight and poor distribution.
I've seen (and spoken to) plenty of people who think they are OK because they have 10% on the ball, but have tool boxes, generators, etc, hanging off the back bumper and the nose of the car up in the air affecting their steering....... no thanks.
But I think the biggest problem is people towing vans that are heavier than their car (simple physics says you are asking for problems). This isn't helped by the car manufacturers and the LIES they tell about towing capacity, especially in the dual cab market.
/rant over
Cheers
Warren
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I still believe that as a general guide with locally built vans, 10% on the ball is not a bad thing to work to. BUT it's often taken out of context with disregard to load balancing before the WDH is connected. WDH's have their role and in the right circumstances they are a useful device for fine tuning, or necessary when pulling over certain weights (over 2268kg for the JGC). They do not overcome the shortcomings of poor load distribution, or poor car to van weight ratio. To assume a WDH can achieve all that on its own is just plain dangerous. As a base starting point, the car should indeed be heavier than the van by a good 10% plus. That way you avoid the tail wagging the dog, which is a condition the WDH alone can't possibly compensate for.
__________________
MY13 GC Laredo CRD - gone but not forgotten
MY23 Skoda Octavia MKIV wagon - fully loaded
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24-05-2018
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 284 What Jeep do I drive?: WK2
Likes: 54
Liked 111 Times in 73 Posts
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Yes to all of the above.
I also have particular concerns regarding large caravan "sail area" versus tow vehicle wheelbase. A longer tow hitch overhang is not a great combination in these instances, but unfortunately is often in the mix.
Overall, it's a complex matrix for the uninitiated.
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24-05-2018
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 551 What Jeep do I drive?: WK
Likes: 7
Liked 79 Times in 58 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernComfort
I still believe that as a general guide with locally built vans, 10% on the ball is not a bad thing to work to. BUT it's often taken out of context with disregard to load balancing before the WDH is connected. WDH's have their role and in the right circumstances they are a useful device for fine tuning, or necessary when pulling over certain weights (over 2268kg for the JGC). They do not overcome the shortcomings of poor load distribution, or poor car to van weight ratio. To assume a WDH can achieve all that on its own is just plain dangerous. As a base starting point, the car should indeed be heavier than the van by a good 10% plus. That way you avoid the tail wagging the dog, which is a condition the WDH alone can't possibly compensate for.
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So we've all got a vehicle that weighs about 2200kg with a tow capacity of 3500kg. My caravan ends up at about 2700kg and I think that's the limit of my comfort zone. On straight, flat terrain, or even pulling uphill all's well, but when you are going down a long decline around a sweeping bend you can feel that the van or trailer is pushing you and you hope that you don't have to brake suddenly!
Some of those off-road vans that weigh 3500kg really should have a truck towing them!
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CRDV6 2017 Laredo Adventure pack
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