No More Diesel Jeep SUV After 2021

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by SouthernComfort

Yep, when you really understand what has to be taken into account (i.e. included in) the 3.5t, regardless of what substance fuels the engine it's virtually impossible to safely haul a 3.5t caravan with a JGC or any other 3.5t rated SUV or Ute in the real world. It's a furphy, always has been.

Yep & Yep & this is the way I see it:

Trailhawk 3.0-litre EcoDiesel 4x4 (from FCA Australia - US figures are a bit different from ours)

GCM = 6099kg
GVM = 2949kg
KWT = 2393kg
Tare = 2340kg

Kerb Weight:
This is the similar to Tare Mass, but with a tank of fuel (varies in how much though) and without any accessories fitted..Kerb weight is generally defined by each manufacturer so is not really a standard specification..whereas Tare is defined by ADRs and included in the vehicle type certification certificate

GCM = GVM +ATM - TBM
= 2949kg + 3500kg- 350kg = 6099kg

Payload = GVM - Kerb Weight (I like to use Tare..it is a defined std so 2340kg)
= 2949 - 2340 = 609kg

Now since TBM is part of the GVM when towing:
Available Payload = 609 - 350 = 259kg

Loading up:

Bullbar & Winch = 100kg
Available Payload = 259 - 100 = 159 kg for passengers, cargo, accessories
Add roof rack, rock rails and aux fuel tank (full) say = 155kg
Available Payload = 4kg for passengers and effects
Assume passengers x 2 = 150kg (75kg ea & no luggage)
Available Payload = -146kg (yep that is minus aka overweight)

The purists here will say but you haven't included the fuel in the main tank & yes I haven't..This is usually the domain of Kerb Weight if it were standard as a full tank.. I've ignored this since things are bad enough as is.

Now how does the 3.5t towing look now?? or any other over 2t for that matter??.
Damn that salesperson (neutral gender PC gone wild)..No I didn't believe them.

Anyway someone check my figures..My head hurts after this..I've lost some weight recently but I can't be that skinny.

3500kg towing..Furphy?? you bet!! Anyway my camper is 1.9t and ball weight is 120kg so I think I can sleep at night.

[lujabe]

Originally Posted by SouthernComfort

Yep, when you really understand what has to be taken into account (i.e. included in) the 3.5t, regardless of what substance fuels the engine it's virtually impossible to safely haul a 3.5t caravan with a JGC or any other 3.5t rated SUV or Ute in the real world. It's a furphy, always has been.

Agreed. I think of it in the sense that an (empty) 5th wheeler caravan weighs in around the 3-3.5t mark... You'd be absolutely mental to hitch something that size and weight to the towbar on any SUV or standard size dual cab. Personally I wouldn’t tow anything that weighed more than the tow vehicle, no matter what various brands marketing departments like to claim.

[Classic Boy]

Yeah but not all towing is for vacation with all the camping paraphernalia including kitchen sink and one's partner (being PC) included.
The over 3.0T capacity is still necessary under some circumstances.

Recently I had to tow a small earthmoving excavator on its trailer with assorted buckets and attachments and it was just over 3T and I was using a WG Grandie with just me the driver and no other kit onboard and it handled it like a dream but without its approved 3.1T legal tow capacity I would have not been legal otherwise.

[Numb Thumbs]

Happy Wanderer

My camper has similar numbers to yours, and the first time I put the rig over a weighbridge, I was 300 kg over GVM, and that was with an alloy bar, no winch, auxiliary tank full (tank plus fuel is around 100 kg), 40 litre fridge in the back on a slide, two adults (total 150 kg for the two of us) and a bit of other gear in the back. Scary!

New GC has no bar or auxiliary tank and I can keep it just under GVM. I run the rig over a weighbridge each trip if I can. There are a fer VICROADS weighbridges on main highways which are on 24/7 for self checking.

Cheers
Numb Thumbs

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Classic Boy

Yeah but not all towing is for vacation with all the camping paraphernalia including kitchen sink and one's partner (being PC) included.
The over 3.0T capacity is still necessary under some circumstances.

Recently I had to tow a small earthmoving excavator on its trailer with assorted buckets and attachments and it was just over 3T and I was using a WG Grandie with just me the driver and no other kit onboard and it handled it like a dream but without its approved 3.1T legal tow capacity I would have not been legal otherwise.

Horses for courses I guess..The truth is in the GCM, ATM & GVM numbers & how you juggle them.
I have heard the DOT here pulling up vehicles that are towing and obviously overloaded..Heard also those that were suss, were told to unload.
Been lots of caravans overturned and wrecked due to incorrect loading either the vehicle and or the van..Numb Thumbs is 100% right about being sure and running your rig over a public weighbridge..Does wonder for any insurance claim if you have a weight certificate and do have an accident..Apart from the long arm of the law and having to 3rd party truck you load home..Less stressful if you know what you're hauling.

[layback40]

Originally Posted by Numb Thumbs

Happy Wanderer

My camper has similar numbers to yours, and the first time I put the rig over a weighbridge, I was 300 kg over GVM, and that was with an alloy bar, no winch, auxiliary tank full (tank plus fuel is around 100 kg), 40 litre fridge in the back on a slide, two adults (total 150 kg for the two of us) and a bit of other gear in the back. Scary!

New GC has no bar or auxiliary tank and I can keep it just under GVM. I run the rig over a weighbridge each trip if I can. There are a fer VICROADS weighbridges on main highways which are on 24/7 for self checking.

Cheers
Numb Thumbs

VICROADS 24/7 bridges are all fitted with CCTV so they know you are over.

[SouthernComfort]

Originally Posted by Classic Boy

Yeah but not all towing is for vacation with all the camping paraphernalia including kitchen sink and one's partner (being PC) included.
The over 3.0T capacity is still necessary under some circumstances.

Recently I had to tow a small earthmoving excavator on its trailer with assorted buckets and attachments and it was just over 3T and I was using a WG Grandie with just me the driver and no other kit onboard and it handled it like a dream but without its approved 3.1T legal tow capacity I would have not been legal otherwise.

As others have correctly observed, towing anything that weighs more than the car compromises handling (tail starts wagging the dog). With that in mind I wouldn't tow your earthmoving load too far, even if you are within your legal GVM & GCM ratings.
A fully loaded car at it's max GVM weight should ideally be towing a weight less than that. Your car (being relatively unloaded) will weigh less than its max GVM, therefore your 3.0t trailer pushes the boundary even further. Dragging it at lowish speeds and/or short distances may be alright, but any ability to handle the worst circumstances e.g. sudden manoeuvres, sharp downhill descent etc. may be compromised.
As with many other makes, the GC WK2 has a chassis, drive train and power plant which make them capable of pulling 3.5t, but it's still only a theoretical rating in terms of practicality and safety.