Civilian Owned Firearms, what do we think?

[WhiteMeat]

Originally Posted by AroGantz

To be fair to the US gun owners the number of mass shootings versus the number of gun owners is very low but that doesn't mean gun control basics like background checks should not be implemented, it is entirely possible that this one simple change to their laws could stop mass shootings.

So why do people quote US statistics when their population size vastly outweighs out own especially in the cities? How appropriate are US statistics compared to our own? A lot of the counter arguments for gun control rely on US statistics, but apart from the fact that they relate to humans and firearms, the parrallels drawn between the two societies are pretty outrageous

[AroGantz]

Originally Posted by WhiteMeat

So why do people quote US statistics when their population size vastly outweighs out own especially in the cities? How appropriate are US statistics compared to our own? A lot of the counter arguments for gun control rely on US statistics, but apart from the fact that they relate to humans and firearms, the parrallels drawn between the two societies are pretty outrageous

I can't answer that question mate but I do agree we should not be using those statistics unless they correct them to show parity, my views have nothing to do with American stats and I'm not anti-gun, I'm pro-gun control.

[WhiteMeat]

Originally Posted by AroGantz

I can't answer that question mate but I do agree we should not be using those statistics unless they correct them to show parity, my views have nothing to do with American stats and I'm not anti-gun, I'm pro-gun control.

Hehe I'm more pro-idiot control

As far as crackdowns on gun owners, we are at the sharp end of the stick - all of the crap that we go through will eventually seep down to fishers (already started) and then other outdoors activists (National Park lockouts for 4wders ring a bell?) that don't walk around with a stick to look at the birds

We all enjoy the outdoors in our own way, I enjoy the offroading that I am comfortable with (and more recently, the offroading i'm not as comfortable with haha) and the time alone I get when out doing vermin controls on rural property, you enjoy offroading, but not the vermin control, it is still effectively the same side of the coin - going for harder restrictions on Aussie shooter *will* filter down to other activities

[Ben]

Originally Posted by WhiteMeat

So why do people quote US statistics when their population size vastly outweighs out own especially in the cities?

Because anyway you look at their figures, they're bad.

findings, published Wednesday in the prestigious American Journal of Medicine, debunk the historic belief among many people in the United States that guns make a country safer, they say. On the contrary, the US, with the most guns per head in the world, has the highest rate of deaths from firearms, while Japan, which has the lowest rate of gun ownership, has the least.

They have more guns per 100 people and more deaths. According to this study, it's 88 guns per 100 people.

http://abcnews.go.com/health/t/blogE...899372%2Cd.aGc

[AusJatzman]

Originally Posted by WhiteMeat

Hehe I'm more pro-idiot control

As far as crackdowns on gun owners, we are at the sharp end of the stick - all of the crap that we go through will eventually seep down to fishers (already started) and then other outdoors activists (National Park lockouts for 4wders ring a bell?) that don't walk around with a stick to look at the birds

We all enjoy the outdoors in our own way, I enjoy the offroading that I am comfortable with (and more recently, the offroading i'm not as comfortable with haha) and the time alone I get when out doing vermin controls on rural property, you enjoy offroading, but not the vermin control, it is still effectively the same side of the coin - going for harder restrictions on Aussie shooter *will* filter down to other activities

pro-idiot control.... I am all for that brother. Im a Paramedic and I live and breath the saying: "There is no cure for stupid". They keep me employed... and busy!!!!

As ex Army and one time semi-pro shooter/vermin control (Hired by larger farms to eradicate certain pests), I am for shooting as a sport. I am also all for the right people having access to guns.

But you raise a VERY good point... How much of our rights do we let the rule makers erode? Step by step they will take away, what ever they deem un-necessary or "Not in the publics best interest"... While I am all for strong gun controls, I can certainly see potential for rule makers to turn it into a big brother state..... In some ways we are already there!!

[WhiteMeat]

Originally Posted by Ben

Because anyway you look at their figures, they're bad.

But my point is (and to possibly offend the 2nd amendment crowd) those figures are for the US - *how* can you possibly translate those figures onto our society and culture?! There is no valid basis for this, our laws are vastly different, our population size is vastly different, our culture is, well, somewhat different (more and more idiots appearing every day though) - what use is using US statistics on a vastly different base? Transposition is all well and fine when both bases are the same, but what you suggested previously and have now relate to two vastly different scenarios / cultures. From the quote above, the *entire* face of the earth should be chastised based on the actions of the US?

[WhiteMeat]

Originally Posted by AusJatzman

pro-idiot control.... I am all for that brother. Im a Paramedic and I live and breath the saying: "There is no cure for stupid". They keep me employed... and busy!!!!

As ex Army and one time semi-pro shooter/vermin control (Hired by larger farms to eradicate certain pests), I am for shooting as a sport. I am also all for the right people having access to guns.

But you raise a VERY good point... How much of our rights do we let the rule makers erode? Step by step they will take away, what ever they deem un-necessary or "Not in the publics best interest"... While I am all for strong gun controls, I can certainly see potential for rule makers to turn it into a big brother state..... In some ways we are already there!!

I really hate to say this, but we *are* already there with regards to the big-brother / nanny state - next time you go for a stroll around the CBD - have a look for all the CCTV cameras - I'm not a tin foil hat type of person (other people can vouch this for me as I rarely wear a hat) but this is happening - as a basic example - the tax office knows, through the relevant state roads & traffic authorities, when an individual purchases a motor vehicle for more than $10,000 - financial institutions have also been told to inform AUSTRAC of suspect transfers of money - it used to be a $10,000 limit, as of a few years ago, morphed into any suspicious transactions.