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Old 09-02-2018
Ednic  Ednic is offline
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Default WG diesel injectors

I have a wg/wj 2.7CRD Grand Cherokee and am wondering if the injectors should be taken out and inspected. The car has done 195 k km's.
Also should injector cleaner be used when topping up the fuel tank.

There are currently no problems with the engine

Thank you........

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Old 09-02-2018
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There is some wisdom in the old saying, "If it ain't broke then don't fix it!"

Unless you have a reason to suspect the injectors, I'd leave them. Removing them brings risk - dirt getting under the seals or entering the cylinder as well as the difficulty of removing numbers 4 & 5.

Look for black sludge around the injectors (aka black death) and if you are really worried, do a leak-back test. Otherwise, I'd leave well enough alone.

The Jeep workshop manual recommends against fuel additives. That said, I put through a bottle of the Penrite system cleaner at the last service and plan to do it every 10,000km. It might be psychological, but I think it makes a little less black smoke now. (I still need to get a round tuit for my EGR delete.)

Mine is almost up to 240k and still going (but I don't know if it's the original injectors or not). It's now my daily drive.

Last edited by JeanLuke; 09-02-2018 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 09-02-2018
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Many thanks for your advice. That sounds like the best course of action at the moment
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Old 09-02-2018
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Diesel injectors are a crapshoot at the best of time. if you want to see if they are a problem, the best test you can perform is a leak back test. All it requires is a very cheap test kit to do this.

If the levels are about the same, you are good to go, you only really need be concerned if the levels are very different on on or two injectors.

JeanLuke's advice is good, if it ain't broke don't touch it.

As for injector cleaner, I'm a fan, they do help keep the system healthy. I use the product these guys sell, it seems to work - http://www.pmlubricants.com.au well.

I don't mind this one either - http://www.chemtech.net.au/cr_fueladditives.html

There are many people that have had good success with eh Fuchs injector cleaner too, it is more work to use though, but it will have more immediate results.

Jason
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Old 13-02-2018
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If it's running fine ,starts easily , does not blow heaps of black smoke , and no black tar around the injectors DO NOT TOUCH as the repair bill to remove and install new injectors will cost you more than the car is worth unless you can do yourself .Injectors are around $540 each x 5 plus minimum of 10 hrs labour -one place quoted $4500 to remove engine as they would not give warranty unless it was removed and injector bores cleaned ,cut the seat and hold down clamp bolt hole helicoiled .I did a leak test and luckily it was #3 injector - had a spare that was cleaned ,retipped and tested for $105 and charged him $200 labour .If you need any info of leak down test -let me know as I have a few photos and posted on this site a couple of months ago.
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Old 13-02-2018
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When I had a bad injector (too much leak-off) I could feel the car pulsing after prolonged idle and gently letting off the brakes.
I could also feel pulsing in the exhaust flow.
No other symptoms until it got worse and it cut off when trying to accelerate.
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Old 11-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almc3 View Post
If it's running fine ,starts easily , does not blow heaps of black smoke , and no black tar around the injectors DO NOT TOUCH as the repair bill to remove and install new injectors will cost you more than the car is worth unless you can do yourself .Injectors are around $540 each x 5 plus minimum of 10 hrs labour -one place quoted $4500 to remove engine as they would not give warranty unless it was removed and injector bores cleaned ,cut the seat and hold down clamp bolt hole helicoiled .I did a leak test and luckily it was #3 injector - had a spare that was cleaned ,retipped and tested for $105 and charged him $200 labour .If you need any info of leak down test -let me know as I have a few photos and posted on this site a couple of months ago.
My 2.7 blows quite a bit of smoke at high load, eg 3/4 to full throttle accelerating up a hill. It's clearly visible in the mirrors. Most of the time there is nothing visible, only under higher loads. Is this normal?

It also makes a bit of a ticking noise under load at higher revs over about 3250RPM. The noise is not there if I just rev under no load. It's not a bearing noise - I know that sound from my youth. It sounds more like tappet noise, but it is only under load & revs, comes on suddenly and not always. It's not exactly loud, but it is very noticeable and distinct (and new). I'm suspecting a dodgy injector, but all my learning with engines to date has been petrol. This is my first diesel, so I am still on the steep bit of the learning curve. Can injectors be noisy? If I invest in a DRB-III emulator, will it give me more information on injector health?

Final question - is an injector puller essential, or only needed if they are tight? Reason for asking, I'm going to do a leak-back test and want to know (if I am up for an injector) if I also need a puller.

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Old 11-03-2018
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The 2.7 cams run directly above the engine valves using a hydraulic lifter(bucket) - twin cam - 4 valves per cylinder arrangement -non adjustable . Generally diesels do not like hi revs and sound like a can of marbles when revved hard eg 4000rpm . Injectors are electronic so they are quite -the hi pressure pump pressurizes fuel to about 15,000 psi (don't quote me -talking generally) and feeds to injectors via the COMMON RAIL -the injectors and timing of the injection spray is completely governed by the Engine control unit -ECU . On old diesel engines ,mechanical injectors spray pattern was created by fuel pump pressure pushing a plunger in the injector unit overcoming internal spring pressure to spray the diesel into the cylinder - not as efficient as electronic but cheap and very reliable -so generally electronic injectors are quite unless they U/S or blocked causing a bad spray pattern and "diesel knock" -incomplete combustion .
Black smoke under load - causes - blocked air filter - lazy turbo ,blocked intercooler (full of oil) - all of these intake restrictions are possible cause - after that is injectors - one other cause on the 2.7 is an injector may have been removed , but the copper washer that seals the injector in the bore was not removed (double washer thickness) on re installation .Sometimes a smokey diesel is cured by a long ,full engine load run if you have been putting around the city - EGR's should only work at low revs ,but if they are clagged out - they need to be removed and cleaned out .
Injectors on the 2.7 are the engines biggest problem as limited access to 4 and 5 and there are many ways of removal - pullers ,slide hammers ect - sometimes your lucky and can remove by soaking in CRC and twisting back and forward with spanner - rocker cover cracks easy - one puller I have requires the removal of the injector internals as it screws into the internal thread - often rendering the injector U/s - if #5 injector is completely seized,engine has to be dropped down by removing engine and tranny mounts to get access.
Leak test is the only way to go -cuts out all the guesswork -see my previous posts as good photos clearly illustrate what you are looking for.
You did not mention KLMs on your engine -Generally over 220,00klm injectors and hi pressure pump need doing -some people are lucky -most are not .
If you need a second hand turbo cheap - let me know - cheers
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Old 11-03-2018
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Thanks for the comprehensive reply. To clarify:
  • Just under 240,000km. It had just over 220,000km when I bought it last May
  • I run the Torque Pro app as a boost gauge. I see 0.5bar at mild throttle (normal slow trafic take-off) peaking up to 1.5 bar if I mash it. I think the turbo is healthy.
  • Given the above and that the pressure is measured at the manifold (after the intercooler) I doubt it is clogged with oil.
  • A straight-edge reveals all injectors are at the same height.
  • No black death. In fact, the injectors look very clean. I suspect they are not original, but I do not have any history.
  • EGR has recently been disabled. I have manually applied and removed vacuum to it to ensure it is closed. I'm pretty sure it is. It idles really rough when I manually put vacuum on the EGR and smooth when removed.
  • The engine does not use oil and is not fume out the oil filler or dipstick.

The smoke is not bad, but visible in the mirrors. I'm working on the assumption that if you can see your own smoke there is a fair bit of it. It is black - not white or blue.

I'll do a leak test, but it will be a few weeks before I can get the time.
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