Sand Driving Question

[Festa_1]

There is no 100% disable in 4Lo you always have TCS "Limited Slip" feature no matter what.

Here is a few quotes from the owners manual,

4WD Low Range
ESP Off
This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 4WD low
range. Whenever the vehicle is started in 4WD low range,
or the transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 4WD
high range or neutral to 4WD low range, the ESP system
will be in this mode. In 4WD low range, ESP and TCS,
except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS
section.

TCS (Traction Control System)
This system monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of
the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake
pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) to provide
enhanced acceleration and stability. A feature of the TCS
system functions similar to a limited slip differential and
controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If one wheel
on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the
system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This
will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel
that is not spinning. This feature remains active even if
TCS and ESP are in either the “Partial Off” or “Full Off”
modes.

ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL SYSTEM
Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced electronic
brake control system that includes ABS (Anti-Lock Brake
System), TCS (Traction Control System), BAS (Brake
Assist System), ERM (Electronic Roll Mitigation), and
ESP (Electronic Stability Program). All five systems work
together to enhance vehicle stability and control in various
driving conditions, and are commonly referred to as
ESP.

I threw in the last one just to show what the system has.

Hope this helps

[glend]

What you maybe seeing is the BLD (Brake Locked Diff) function of TCS working. BLD is part of all vehicles equipped with ESP and provides a Diff Lock function using the ABS system to detect a freewheeling wheel and then apply the brake to that wheel forcing the toque over onto the other wheel of that axle. The inclusion of BLD in the ESP package is the primary reason that LSD (and lockers) are no longer available as a factory option. I suggest a reading of the following link from a Jeep engineer on how the system works:

http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

[Fatty2by4]

Originally Posted by Festa_1

There is no 100% disable in 4Lo you always have TCS "Limited Slip" feature no matter what.

Here is a few quotes from the owners manual,

4WD Low Range
ESP Off
This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 4WD low
range. Whenever the vehicle is started in 4WD low range,
or the transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 4WD
high range or neutral to 4WD low range, the ESP system
will be in this mode. In 4WD low range, ESP and TCS,
except for the “limited slip” feature described in the TCS
section.

OK, that's fine with the owners manual bit. All I know is that since I've had my firmware upgraded (from a few different service bulletins) I haven't experienced _any_ ESP related problems. The TCS as far as I know is also _completely_ disabled. The owners manual doesn't cover the firmware I now have, so for those that don't have the firmware upgrades I have, then the manual is correct. For my JK, i don't think it applies in this case.

As I said before, I had to sign a liability waiver because the service bulletin specifically said that there would be no ESP at all what-so-ever. The person that did the change said it was basically the same thing as pulling the fuse.

If the TCS is still engaged, that's cool, I'm not worried. If it's not 100%, then it's as close as you're going to get. The bottom line is that it will stop the problem with the ESP flashing in 4HI. I had the exact same problem (or so it sounds like) when I first went up to stockton. I couldn't turn, or even go in a straight line at a reasonable speed without my ESP light flashing. If I kept ignoring the flashing light, after a while the engine light would come on, and a restart of the vehicle had to be done. This engine light behaviour I hear is (or was) common.

Fatty-

[puck]

So with the firmware upgrade you can still single press the ESP button and its in partial off? You just get the extra function to totally turn it off?

[Festa_1]

Thanks for that link glend, very informative, I was a bit stressed about not having the LSD but I will give this TCS/BLD a chance to prove it's self now.

I pick up my 09 JK in a week or so Fatty2by4 so I will ask about that firmware upgrade at the same time to find out what it excludes/includes so anyone iterested can get it done if they are having trouble.

Thanks

[Fatty2by4]

Originally Posted by puck

So with the firmware upgrade you can still single press the ESP button and its in partial off? You just get the extra function to totally turn it off?

Yeppers, that's what I get.

[dhard]

went for drive up at bribie and did the lenght of the beach from 1st lagoon to last fort you can drive too. Distance was probably 17ks all of which was done in the soft rutted sand in 4hi. the last section involved some ducking in and out of the trees whilst waiting for a gap between the water coming up the beach and going out and was still done in 4 hi. The jeep really goes well on the beach and the only time i thought i might have any drama's was when i tried taking off in 2nd 4lo leaving the soft sand. It started to dig down too much leaving me too think unless it was very soft 4lo is a waste off time on the beach. The inland track which has some sand sections was all done in 2wd. Fuel consumption in the soft sand was enough to make my eyebrows raise though.