5.7 hemi tick

[skala]

I have a 2010 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 Eagle Head, now on 110500km. Bought the vehicle a year ago with only 95500km on the clock and all agent services on time. At the time I had a 2008 GC 5.7 and sold it with 198000km on it. From the start the 2008 motor ran quieter than the newer 2010 one.

Removed the cats on the 2010, as I did on the 2008 and soon exhaust manifold bolts broke both sides. This resulted in clear "tick" sounds, but it could be heard that the manifold was leaking. Fortunately in South Africa where I am, the smog rules dont apply.
Now sorted, but a "tick" remained, for at least the last 4000km. No misfire or bad idle, but very clear even when hot. Always used synthetic oil of correct weight. Was told by few knowledgeable chaps that the tick most likely is not a lifter/cam issue, but I am concerned.

Searching the different forums, I am under the impression that the Ram trucks have the most lifter failures compared to the Jeep and Charger/Challenger vehicles. This includes Rams without the MDS. I have not heard or read about the older pre 2009 5.7 hemi having lifter/cam failures.
Also it seems the 6.4 hemi develops lifter failures, much more than the older 6.1.

There are a number of possible caused for this failure, but to me it is clear that the Eagle Head on our 5.7 hemi and the Apache Head on the 6.4 hemi is flawed with a high probability of lifter/cam failure. Being in South Africa, access to spares is very problematic and expensive, else I would tear down the engine and do a detail investigation and repair, since I want to keep my Jeep.

[jeepsgofaster]

I hear your concerns, I've researched this extensively and my conclusion is that like crd's it's emissions compliance that has created this flaw in eagle head engines.

As you have correctly identified the previous gen III hemi never had this issue this is the proof that the engines inherent design is not flawed as many will try to convince you. IMO it's not the cylinder head either. When it comes to pushrod, rocker lay out and valve placing ect. All the things the lifters and cam care about are carried over from the previous engine, so no changes there.

My conclusion is that this issue is purely a lubrication issue caused nearly entirely by 3 factors.

Number 1 being that manufacturers are constantly trying to reduce oil pump volumes because pumping oil is considered a paracidic loss. When your focus is emissions paracidic loss is your enemy. In this case it wasn't a case of reducing oil pump volume. It was a case of not increasing it enough to accommodate other new emissions equipment, being the vvt, mds and crazy oil recommendations.

Number 2 is the way the mds shuts down cylinders is by collapsing some lifters, it does this by sending oil pressure to the body of the lifter. But when you idle mds is not active so oil to the body of the lifter is reduced to keep it engaged. Couple that with the recommended stupidity thin oil that is by this time hot and even thinner even an adequate oil pump would struggle to keep sufficient oil supplied to the restricted lifter bodies. Oil especially thin oil is like water it'll take the easiest path and that will be through bearing clearances ect.

Number 3 is the rediculous oil recommendation for this engine. No engine you care about should be running anything less than a 30w oil imo. If you're towing or driving spiritedly 40w and the final nail for the oil recommendation is that it's an enviro spec oil meaning no zinc or any other elements that maybe able to assist the lifters in a low lubrication situation.

2 more contributing factors are that these engines run so smooth the std idle is only 500rpm which means the oil pump is turning slower at idle than a lot of other engines and the running temp on these engines is so high for emissions reasons thining out an already crazy thin oil.

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[jeepsgofaster]

For your particular tick, first thing is to try and exclude everything other than valve train.

Exhaust manifold leaks as you have identified are very similar sound. I know you said you had the studs replaced but if the manifolds were slightly warped from before and the gaskets fitted with no sealer it's possible that you still have a leak there. Also I found that it's a very high probability that when you break studs it's because your left hand engine mount has collapsed letting the engine move around more. Yours might still be doing this.

You can pretty much eleminate a broken vale spring because that is nearly always accompanied by a miss fire.

Hemi's can also get a top end tick because their rockers are not located on the shaft. So with a bit of wear it is possible for one to move slightly an then snap back into position when they go to full lift on the next rotation.

To check cam condition you can measure the travel of every push rod with a dial gauge looking for ones with lower lift than the others. This is not infallible though because in the early stages of a cam lifter failure this may not show it.

My advice, change to a real oil of at least 5w-30 if a zinc oil is not readily available to you use a zinc additive in your oil.

Attach a rare earth magnet (available on ebay) to the oil filter so if it is a lifter failure any metal particals will stop in your oil filter

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[bjm]

Originally Posted by skala

I have a 2010 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 Eagle Head, now on 110500km. Bought the vehicle a year ago with only 95500km on the clock and all agent services on time. At the time I had a 2008 GC 5.7 and sold it with 198000km on it. From the start the 2008 motor ran quieter than the newer 2010 one.

Removed the cats on the 2010, as I did on the 2008 and soon exhaust manifold bolts broke both sides. This resulted in clear "tick" sounds, but it could be heard that the manifold was leaking. Fortunately in South Africa where I am, the smog rules dont apply.
Now sorted, but a "tick" remained, for at least the last 4000km. No misfire or bad idle, but very clear even when hot. Always used synthetic oil of correct weight. Was told by few knowledgeable chaps that the tick most likely is not a lifter/cam issue, but I am concerned.

Searching the different forums, I am under the impression that the Ram trucks have the most lifter failures compared to the Jeep and Charger/Challenger vehicles. This includes Rams without the MDS. I have not heard or read about the older pre 2009 5.7 hemi having lifter/cam failures.
Also it seems the 6.4 hemi develops lifter failures, much more than the older 6.1.

There are a number of possible caused for this failure, but to me it is clear that the Eagle Head on our 5.7 hemi and the Apache Head on the 6.4 hemi is flawed with a high probability of lifter/cam failure. Being in South Africa, access to spares is very problematic and expensive, else I would tear down the engine and do a detail investigation and repair, since I want to keep my Jeep.

All the 5.7,6.2 ,6.4 s are having lifter problems ,if yours is a lifter failure.?As JGF
stated easy way to diagnose is to take off rocker cover and check rocker lift. All the non mdsHemi lifters since 2016 have been so called Hellcat lifters ,these are failing. !Again use a top race quality 5w40 synthetic ,I also add a zinc additive in my 2015 GC SRT. I use Penrite 10 tenths oil here in Aust. The theories on why these oe lifters are failing is ongoing,suffice to say even aftermarket ones are failing as well

[skala]

Many thanks for all your meaningful comments. I now first need to confirm any lifter failure and then cam failure.

For that as suggested check rocker lift. If no discrepancy, then maybe no lifter failure/damage, but I am sure there will be damage.

Next drastic step, remove head or both. Then it should be possible to view the cam through the lifter guide and look for lobe damage. If lobe damage, well ...................

I will in meantime change to heavier oil, but if there is damage, this is not a fix. Been using good quality synthetic from day one.

Will keep posted.