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24-12-2014
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 34
Liked 388 Times in 291 Posts
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a vacuum is caused when all breathers are blocked off , (like sucking on a stubbie trying to get the last drop)
expanding fuel by heat ,
pressure by expanding and fumes , fuel when wet form is ok , but when mixed with air and allows the fuel to evaporate is when it is explosive
it takes air as well to make a flame.
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24-12-2014
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Jedi Master
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WJ JK Jeep Trailer Jeep R/C Sydney
Age: 78
Posts: 2,550 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 1,088
Liked 919 Times in 625 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetnblurt
a vacuum is caused when all breathers are blocked off , (like sucking on a stubbie trying to get the last drop)
expanding fuel by heat ,
pressure by expanding and fumes , fuel when wet form is ok , but when mixed with air and allows the fuel to evaporate is when it is explosive
it takes air as well to make a flame.
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In that: A breather works both direction with positive and negative pressure? What then when a one way valve gets installed as recommended by workshop?
Some piccies
Another reply from a mate:
I swear I remember looking at your fuel pipes and pointing out that they were kinked!! Can't say I didn't warn you on that one!! hahaha
The reason your tank would've gone clunk when you released the pressure is that it probably expanded slightly under pressure, seeing as the vent line was kinked, and when you released pressure, it would've shrunk back down to size. The clunk would be either the top or the bottom wall bowing in and out during those pressure changes, nothing odd about that, fix the vent line and it won't be an issue. Bubbling would also be from the same cause. I imagine your fuel tank fill hose is now in somewhat of an S bend, similar to what you might see under a sink at home. There is probably fuel in the S part of the line, and when you release the tank cap, the pressure from the tank is just pushing air/vapor up the line, past the S bend and making it burble and gurgle. Well, that's what I guess anyway, based on what you're telling me. There's no much else that would explain the burbling though.
I don't really know why having pressure in the fuel tank would cause engine issues though, or why it would give vapor at the injectors, as it's only one pressure line from the fuel filter located just in front of the tank, all the way to the engine. I would be having a look at your injector o-rings though, as they do get old and start to perish.
So another question is: why was pressure released when opening the cap? I thought that cap is vented. The fact that there is pressure there means the breather hose is venting but getting stopped at the cap? I really have to study the fueling system. Wifey not happy... Heeee
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24-12-2014
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 34
Liked 388 Times in 291 Posts
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the cap is not the only vent , there is the EVAP , cap goes both ways , slower than one way than the other .
NOW the worse possible thing telling by pics is : do not have rubber lines hitting , do not use rip ties , do not bend line around corners of metal on the car , try to remove them away from the swing arms and any possible place that will rub on the body , (in other words make sure they don't hit anywhere) do you know how a plumbing s bend works ? the reason they have is to stops smells rising up , just like .....VAPOR LoL if any expanding happens with tank being overfull it should run out of the overflow pipe , man oh man , just make sure the lines are as strait as possible and not hitting on the body badly , and not bent over say ??? 60 dec , and fuel line is used , not some Mexican hat , or chinese paper pipe , you will know if the injectors are leaking , but I would look at the regulator , see if its ok and right for the pressure of fuel , cap just put to mouth and blow it should have a slow flow through of air , and a little better in sucking through , and check your seal of the pump (the one that sits around it on the tank )
and last one : more fuel in a container less vapour , less fuel more vapour
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24-12-2014
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 34
Liked 388 Times in 291 Posts
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a fuel cap needs to work both ways , remember , pump works hard , if the tank is sealed it will cause vacuum , making it harder for the pump to draw fuel ,
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01-01-2015
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gold Coast QLD
Posts: 467 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
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Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
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I am still convinced of my line of thinking, your mate has the same sort of thinking with the gurgling, and just because the car has an evap system, and has a breather on the fuel cap doesn't mean that its working efficiently. Cars are renounced to blow air out when the fuel gets low (more vapor is made when the tank it low on fuel), as the fuel cap only works on vacuum, the EVAP or charcoal canister works on positive, and would only handle so much positive pressure, get your breathers fixed (hook them up to your factory system in the same fashion the factory one works) and you'll have no problems. Also keep in mind the pump would pump from one tank to another, so creating a vacuum in one and pressure in the other, linking the breathers on each tank would keep them at the same pressure all the time, and its a completely sealed system.
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01-01-2015
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CrawlerStar
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,657 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 34
Liked 388 Times in 291 Posts
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I just did my evap , I got rid of the charcoal canister one , and placed the evap one from the 2002 under the passenger side bumper , what a job to get it to work , but done , I remember that people use to complain about fuel smell in the cabin with the evap under the bonnet , hence I had a 2002 one witch does not have charcoal , (not that I know of ) the amount of dust and rubbish the breather side of it collects is amazing ! but as long as it doesn't block .
you were saying about vapour , when a car is near full , it will of course has less vapour , but when running and fuel moves around it still needs to expand and release the vapour older cars had the filler neck tube run up near the top to stop it (so it can breathe) but modern , like PC valve or positive crank pressure ,
any hoo way too tired to try to think , after climbing all over the ground and connecting hoses , (and after a glass of red) I am knackered .
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04-01-2015
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Jedi Master
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WJ JK Jeep Trailer Jeep R/C Sydney
Age: 78
Posts: 2,550 What Jeep do I drive?: WJ
Likes: 1,088
Liked 919 Times in 625 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggers
The bubbling would be the air returning through the breather into the tank, and if there is a vacuum in the tanks, there is one in the rail, which could ultimately cause low fuel pressure, with a hot engine could cause vapor lock, or just lack of fuel pressure. Sort the breather hose out, and you'll probably sort out your
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggers
I am still convinced of my line of thinking, your mate has the same sort of thinking with the gurgling, and just because the car has an evap system, and has a breather on the fuel cap doesn't mean that its working efficiently. Cars are renounced to blow air out when the fuel gets low (more vapor is made when the tank it low on fuel), as the fuel cap only works on vacuum, the EVAP or charcoal canister works on positive, and would only handle so much positive pressure, get your breathers fixed (hook them up to your factory system in the same fashion the factory one works) and you'll have no problems. Also keep in mind the pump would pump from one tank to another, so creating a vacuum in one and pressure in the other, linking the breathers on each tank would keep them at the same pressure all the time, and its a completely sealed system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetnblurt
the cap is not the only vent , there is the EVAP , cap goes both ways , slower than one way than the other .
NOW the worse possible thing telling by pics is : do not have rubber lines hitting , do not use rip ties , do not bend line around corners of metal on the car , try to remove them away from the swing arms and any possible place that will rub on the body , (in other words make sure they don't hit anywhere) do you know how a plumbing s bend works ? the reason they have is to stops smells rising up , just like .....VAPOR LoL if any expanding happens with tank being overfull it should run out of the overflow pipe , man oh man , just make sure the lines are as strait as possible and not hitting on the body badly , and not bent over say ??? 60 dec , and fuel line is used , not some Mexican hat , or chinese paper pipe , you will know if the injectors are leaking , but I would look at the regulator , see if its ok and right for the pressure of fuel , cap just put to mouth and blow it should have a slow flow through of air , and a little better in sucking through , and check your seal of the pump (the one that sits around it on the tank )
and last one : more fuel in a container less vapour , less fuel more vapour
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Yeah, I agree to all what's said. Fix the vent and also the evao solenoids as well. I can hear a faint ticking noise after the incident. I will have the vent hose sorted and try out another fuel cap.
Cheers people! You guys make this forum great. I will update this when sorted.
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