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  #1  
Old 04-09-2012
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Default Hints for Torque Converter Upgraders

Here are a few things that I have thought of in hindsight to my original thread on changing the torque converter. Since a couple of people are about to do this job I think these might be useful:

1. Have a quantity of ATF+4 on hand for this job, you will lose some fluid during the change. I tried to capture everything in a plastic container and filter it before returning in after it was all back together. Some fluid will stay in the TC and it's very hard to get it all out because it traps in the sides of the donut when you pick it up (but you can see it pool up when you lay it down). I reckon there would be close to 1 litres trapped in there. Some ATF will drain out when you pull the TC off the shaft, and you can capture that in a container.

2. You may need to cut the cooler lines in order to be able to move the transmission to the rear. This was a real problem for me as despite following the instructions about popping off the clamps, I could not get enough slack in the lines to give me enough room to get the TC out (this maybe due to my previous second cooler install affecting slack in the rubber hoses). I looked at cutting them up near the cooler/s rubber hoses but that was already cut previously for the install of the second cooler and there was not enough room and I didn't have rubber line splice fittings. I decided to cut the hard lines because they are easy to reconnect using a section of rubber tranny hose and clamps. When you do cut those lines (wherever you do it) fluid will drain out of the coolers and lines - try to be ready for this and capture what you can as it can be reused.

3. Once getting it all back together and returning your captured (and filtered through cheeselcoth) fluid to the transmission, you may still be low on fluid. If you do not have ATF+4 on hand, it is possible to use Nulon Multivehicle Transmission fluid as a short term fix. The Nulon fluid is listed as being compatible (on their website but not some of the bottle labels (seems to depend on which lable set was used)). If in doubt call the Nulon Tech Support line they were helpful. But I would not leave that top up Nulon in there for long as you are mixing two types of fluid.

4. Just a thought on the dipstick tube. This proved to be a very challenging thing to get reinstalled. Because it inserts into the transmission body (vertically into the pan and casting), there is room required above the transmssion to get it out. When you remove the dipstick tube in the early part of the transmission removal process, pay close attention to how you take it out because it must go in when the tranny is in the exact position and orientation as when you took it out. I struggled to get that sucker back in for hours. Because I was working on the ground underneath the vehicle on jack stands there was not enough room to lower it far enough to get the clearance. I had to cut the dipstick tube in two pieces in order to get it back in easily - I used a section of 19mm heater hose as a splice above where the clamp attaches to the engine block. This actually has been a useful mod because it gives a small amount of flex in the tube which allows me to secure the top to the PCV puck and stops the stress on that tube ( I know of one that has broken it's clamp weld due to vibration stress). However I don't recommend cutting it if you can avoid it, I was just making the best of a bad situation.

These next two are not specifically related to the TC change but are important for filter servicing and fluid swaps.

5. Re general filter servicing, you need to have at least two 4 litre bottles of ATF+4 on hand. THe various service manual posts on this subject suggest that you need 6 litres for a filter service but this really depends on whether you have an additional cooler, and how long you let the transmission drain. If you leave it over night and have an additional cooler you may need 8 litres. The remaining fluid will remain in the pump, internal lines, and TC body.

6. Some obsessive people (including me) do a partial fluid replacement annually (between filter changes). This can be done using a vacuum hand pump with a tube down the dipstick tube. The benefits of this combined with the regular filter service is that 'most' of your fluid will never be more than two years old. Yes there would always be a small amount of diluted older fluid retained but this seems to be insignificant in the total amount.
Vacuum pumps can be bought from any Whitworths Marine shop, and they are handy for a number of service activities:

I use this one and it's great:

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_i...AbsolutePage=1

I'll add to this list if I can think of anything else.

Anyone else who has done this job feel free to add any suggestion or hints frm your own experiences.

Last edited by glend; 04-09-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 05-09-2012
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Hi Glen, last weekend I put an idea to the test.
After reading up on the auto for the KJ I found an inference that the overdrive switch was linked to the TC unlocking. That is; when in overdrive, the TC unlocks to allow the motor to accelerate quicker at high speed. I then speculated that the transmision controller (wont use the acronym for that to save confusion) would lock the TC when overdrive was disengaged.
I had some 'runaway' on a hill a couple of months ago in the Southern Flinders, I had the overdrive engaged at the time. I tried the idea on a short hill a while after. It seemed to work but I wasn't convinced. Last weekend the Adelaide Jeep Club went to Loveday 4WD park at Barmera. I tried it out on some long steep hills and it consistently worked. In low 1 with the overdrive button disengaged the engine braking worked brilliantly. You could even hear a clunk changing down from low 2 to low 1 whilst rolling up to the edge. It went over steadily everytime. Saying that; a V6 petrol has less compression than a 4cyl diesel so it does rev a bit higher but it really stuck the drivetrain together.
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Old 05-09-2012
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Andy, want to run this by me again? Is it your understanding that by turning off the overdrive that it allows the torque converter to lock up? I would of thought that manufacturers would of wanted torque converters to lock up in overdrive to increase fuel economy. But defenantly going to try this with the CRD on the weekend.
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Old 06-09-2012
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The V6, which Andy has, has a different transmission ti the CRD; but they are related. The CRD, had the 545RFE which is a five speed with the fifth being an overdrive. The very early model CRDs miyght have had the same transmission as the V6 had the 45RFE which is a four speed with fourth being an overdrive. Lockup of the torque converter occurs in the top gears if each. If you run the GDE TCM tune you get lockup in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and the overdrive button is used differently. There is no GDE TCM tune for the V6. I don't know about the wisdom of trying out Andy's experiment on the other transmissiin but ket us know what you find out if you do it.

I'm not sure I understand what Andy was getting at as well. Normal kick down out of a locked up top gear will put you back on the pump, which is less fuel efficient than lockup. His description needs abit more detail I think.

Last edited by glend; 06-09-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 06-09-2012
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Mate, this has nothing to do with your post. you are at the top of the list. How do you post a new message, I can reply but can't see how you post a new message?
New to forums and don't know what I'm doing.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-09-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glend View Post
The V6, which Andy has, has a different transmission ti the CRD; but they are related. The CRD, had the 545RFE which is a five speed with the fifth being an overdrive. The very early model CRDs miyght have had the same transmission as the V6 had the 45RFE which is a four speed with fourth being an overdrive. Lockup of the torque converter occurs in the top gears if each. If you run the GDE TCM tune you get lockup in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and the overdrive button is used differently. There is no GDE TCM tune for the V6. I don't know about the wisdom of trying out Andy's experiment on the other transmissiin but ket us know what you find out if you do it.

I'm not sure I understand what Andy was getting at as well. Normal kick down out of a locked up top gear will put you back on the pump, which is less fuel efficient than lockup. His description needs abit more detail I think.
Yes its the difference between two auto boxes but the programing is in the TCM. Like I said I couldn't find anywhere that describes how the TCM actually works but had experienced runaway on hill descents quite a few times. I was looking for a solution as the TCM does switch the torque converter lock at highway speed above 80km/hr. I found that on a chrysler transmission site.
As for testing it out I wouldn't mind hearing if others find this works. The diesel does hill descents better than the petrol and the V6 has a history of runaway.
It wouldn't change anything on the driving setup with the overdrive lockout 'off', as logically nothing the overdrive switch does has anything to do with low gearing but it is an input to the TCM. I'll keep providing info but it was successful over four succesive hill descents on long steep hills. If anyone has done the Hill climbs at Loveday 4WD park they would know they are progressively challanging hills even the easy slope.
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Last edited by KJ_andy; 07-09-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012
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McGivor I have sent you a PM on your question.
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