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  #19  
Old 28-07-2017
mick666  mick666 is offline
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If you hit an immovable object like a tree at 60 ks in a 4x4 on a chassis with bugger all crumple zones you will want that nasty Taketa airbag to go off..

And all this is trivial compared to what will happen with self driving cars and electronic gremlins.. Tesla has already killed people..
  #20  
Old 28-07-2017
rjl3175  rjl3175 is offline
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The air bag is still more likely to save your life than cause your death. It "apparently" only affects the air bag after 5 or 6 years. And don't forget you still have to be involved in a rather serious crash to set the bag off.
Complaining that Jeep are not doing enough when this affects most manufacturers and there is a world wide shortage of replacements is a bit childish. Mazda and Honda and others are putting the exact same air bag in knowing they will have to do it again. Another problem is that the manufacturer of the air bags has filed for bankruptcy.
More likely to die of a bee or wasp sting.
  #21  
Old 28-07-2017
OzRick25  OzRick25 is offline
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Not sure where your pulling the statistics? I certainly cant find data that indicates how many out of a particular sample of passenger vehicles are involved in an accident that deploys frontal airbags to then compare that percentage against the estimated 7 million recalled vehicles and contrast this with the 202 known serious injuries or deaths to eatablish a baseline quantification of the risk.
I'm not in the prime age demogrphic of dying in the shower when I am ill probably take a bath. I am however in the prime age and gender demographic of serious vehicle accidents. I also have a 10 year old Jeep, that has spent most of its life either right next to the coast in a humid environment or traveling on dust or dirt both of which increase the risk.
The automotive industry has known about these potential issues for 4 years and FCA has only decided to act in the last 6 months and that action is apparently to do nothing but issue a recall with no suggested mitigation. The recall contains no advice as to the risk likelihood or measures that can be undertaken to reduce or mitigate the risk whilst they engineer out the problem. FCA also have no estimate of when a replacement part may be available.
If I think there is going to be lightning I stay inside, so by that theory I guess I should not be driving my car, for how long do I expect to be without my car?
I would not call complaining childish. I would call the entire Industries (including FCA's) responce to the problem as substandard particularly from an engineering and risk management practice perspective.
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  #22  
Old 28-07-2017
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Google is your friend. If as many people died in Jumbo jets world wide as do in motor cars in Victoria alone then the whole fleet of aircraft would be grounded. It's about perspective.
Your tyre may suffer catastrophic failure causing a crash in which the air bag deployed causing injury, what's to blame? If the sky were to fall you'd have a blue head, it's just not that big a deal. If you're that concerned just be more diligent when driving and not be involved in a crash.
220 out of 8000000000 people works out to be bugger all %.

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  #23  
Old 28-07-2017
rjl3175  rjl3175 is offline
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Oh, and just so you know, if your air bag deploys you will most likely wake up in hospital.
  #24  
Old 28-07-2017
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Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

220 out of 8000000000 sounds perfectly reasonable, but is wrong. The numbers you are looking for are 220 out of <number of crashes where airbags have been deployed>, not out of vehicles sold.

And as I said, I agree with you that the chances are slim of it being defective, but mine is over 5 years old (it's an '08 model), and spent the first half of it's life in QLD and the rusty exposed metal says water & beaches, (original owner was around MacKay, I believe.) The JK is also a soft top, remember, andis often driven without the top up, so occasionally gets rain inside with unexpected showers while driving. So my risk is significantly higher than average... if I'm involved in a crash that triggers them.

But as I said, it's all about taking the risks you choose to take. And this is not one that is by my choice. Additionally the JK DOES have crumple zones, and it doesn't have to be me that screws up to cause the crash. I have to trust that today is not the day that an idiot is going to run head on into me. Or pull out in front of me, or... It's happened before and I've been "lucky" enough to walk away. (The bikes were not so lucky...) "Lucky", because I was wearing full riding gear of good quality that did it's job & protected me, not just a T shirt like many I see. Like I said, I choose my risks. But I don't wear gear that is possibly going to cause me more harm or kill me while being intended to protect me, even if it probably won't. (About a month ago, as I was driving one of the girls up to her dance class, I had someone coming the opposite way overtake the car infront of him that was doing 60, (in a 60 zone passing the primary school), over double lines & on my side of the pedestrian refuge island, and ducked back to his own side missing me head on by less than a car length, with me doing what I could to avoid him. He was still accelerating as he passed me, and if I had been a bit slower avoiding him, I would have found out what state the airbags were in. Thing is, one day I won't be able to dodge.

But what does it matter, really? It's probably ok, and it isn't my airbag that is the problem...
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  #25  
Old 29-07-2017
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And to add to the whole issue Takata has filed for Bankruptcy in Japan and the US, which means the vehicle manufacturers will likely now have to carry more of the replacement cost.

I suspect this isn't good news for us..... FCA's recall campaigns are pretty useless at the best of times but this isn't likely to improve the situation.
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  #26  
Old 30-07-2017
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From what I saw, they are probably looking to be purchased by the Chinese airbag manufacturer Key Safety Systems Inc:
Key Safety Systems chosen as favored buyer of Takata, report says
Key Safety Systems

Quote:
The company is owned by Ningbo Joyson Electronic, described as a "Chinese automotive conglomerate" that recently acquired Key Safety Systems in 2016 for $920 million.[1][2] The combined sales of both companies is more than $3 billion. Ningbo Joyson Electronic competed against other large companies in the industry to aquire KSS, including Autoliv.
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  #27  
Old 15-08-2017
StuieG  StuieG is offline
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So here's a bit of news, somewhat good, if you can be bothered to read it?

This is an excerpt from an internal media platform within the motor industry, so it's reliable, as far as media goes!

Deadly Takata 'alpha' airbags rupture in up to 50% of cases

Takata 'alpha' airbags that rupture in up to 50% of cases are in 50,000 Australian cars, but the car companies recalling them have yet to warn drivers of the increased dangers these older-model inflators pose.
Vehicles from Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Honda and Nissan have alpha versions of Takata inflators installed in more than two dozen car models widely sold in Australia, an ongoing CHOICE investigation has found.
These alpha versions of Takata inflators have a significantly higher chance of shattering when an airbag deploys. Testing has found approximately 1-in-400 Takata inflators can crack, but with early alpha versions, the possibility of an airbag rupture can be as high as 1-in-2.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), a US safety body that has taken a leading role in the worldwide recall of Takata airbags, issued a "critical warning" in June 2016 on alpha inflators.

"The air bag inflators in these particular vehicles contain a manufacturing defect which greatly increases the potential for dangerous rupture when a crash causes the air bag to deploy. Testing of the inflators from these vehicles show rupture rates as high as 50 percent in a laboratory setting."

Out of the ten fatalities linked to Takata airbags in the US, eight were caused by alpha inflators, the NHTSA revealed in June 2017.
Manufacturers in Australia have recalled 150,400 vehicles due to these inflators, but since the first cars were recalled in 2009, our ongoing investigation found a third of them remain unrepaired.
And the remaining 51,136 Australian car owners won't be told their vehicles have alpha inflators installed, even though car makers have been aware of the increased risks for at least a year.

The Australian arms of Honda, Toyota, Lexus, BMW and Nissan haven't mentioned alpha inflators (or PSDI inflators, as they are technically known) on company websites, dedicated recall sites or news sites. The recall notices posted on Product Safety Australia don't detail the higher risks of an airbag rupture; some don't even recognise the potential risk of death. Nor have these companies issued media releases in an effort to reach the remaining owners.

The dangers of an alpha inflator rupturing are so high that Honda US, upon being warned of the increased failure rate by the NHTSA, is offering its customers a service unavailable to those in Australia.
"Honda [US] will provide free alternative transportation during the necessary repairs, and, if the owner is either unable or uncomfortable driving the vehicle in for repair, the company will tow the vehicle for free to the nearest authorized dealer," the company writes in a fact sheet.

Car manufacturers contacted by CHOICE confirmed loan vehicles were only available on a "case by case basis" – a term used by more than one car maker on the issue. But when CHOICE mystery shopped Honda's dedicated call centre, enquiring about an Accord manufactured in 2001 (a car known to have alpha inflators and therefore considered dangerous to drive) a customer service representative told us: "Honda doesn't provide a national loan car program, Sir."

Takata's airbags degrade over time and its alpha inflators are its oldest, aged 11 to 16 years. The Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development, which has overseen the recall of of Takata airbags in Australia since 2009, has initiated recalls of 100% of alpha inflators.

"Replacement of the airbags categorised as alpha has been prioritised and affected vehicle owners have been sent a number of letters regarding the recall of their vehicle," a spokesperson for the federal government body tells CHOICE.

"The department strongly recommends that affected vehicle owners arrange for the airbag in their vehicle to be replaced as soon as possible by undertaking the actions outlined in the letters from the relevant vehicle manufacturer," the spokesperson adds.

The warning follows the death of a 58-year-old man in NSW, the first in Australia. He had received five recall notices from Honda.

Industry stakeholders will describe the problem with alpha inflators as an undisclosed 'manufacturing defect', but the high failure rate of these airbags is the culmination of several faults. Late in 2009, after being commissioned by Takata, the Fraunhofer Institute for Chemical Technology requested 60 alpha inflators for testing. Cracks, abrasions and scratches were found on 30% of them, while 10% sustained "severe damage" to the ammonium nitrate tablets used to inflate them.
Fraunhofer hypothesised alpha inflators "promote" moisture, which is widely believed to cause Takata airbags to degrade over time, but the tablets were a bigger worry: "they could make the booster propellant more energetic and could adversely affect ballistics."

How often alpha inflators rupture in Toyota, Lexus, Nissan and BMW vehicles remains unknown. Testing of 245,000 Takata airbags found 0.27% (or 660 of them) ruptured upon deployment, while Honda confirmed the failure rate of its alpha inflators can be as high as 50%. For the remaining 51,029 vehicles still driving unrepaired in Australia, the rate of failure could be anywhere in between.

Takata would not comment on the record regarding the increased risk posed by alpha inflators when asked by CHOICE. A contact in Takata's home country of Japan, who has direct knowledge of the situation, acknowledged these inflators pose an increased risk. They do share the same core technology, but there are variations in how they have been installed in different cars. He urged drivers to get these airbags replaced without delay and warned: "minor accidents may have tragic outcomes."

The recall of 2.3 million Takata airbags in Australia has proven to be a logistical nightmare. A parts shortage, retrofitting issues and the availability of authorised technicians has resulted in typical wait times of six months. Since the recall started with two-thousand Honda vehicles in 2009, and then widened to include additional car manufacturers in 2013, 850,000 airbags have been repaired. There are still 1.6 million cars waiting to be repaired under the recall, which isn't expected to be finished until 2020.

Manufacturers struggled for years with a parts shortage and, as CHOICE revealed last month, car makers resorted to making like-for-like replacements of defective recalled airbags, in some cases. Owners of cars from Mazda, Toyota, BMW, Lexus, Subaru and Honda were not told they received an identical replacement. There are concerns the owners of these cars will ignore future recall notices thinking they have already had their airbag repaired.

CHOICE understands like-for-like replacements are no longer being carried out in Australia. People affected by the recall who take their car in for a repair will either receive an airbag from another manufacturer, or a Takata airbag fitted with a "desiccant"; that is, a drying agent intended to fend off the moisture that causes these airbags to breakdown. The NHTSA issued a warning to Takata in late 2016: if it cannot prove the revised airbags are safe by 2019, then it will need to recall them too.
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