IPF headlight upgrade dramas

[fil]

i just plugged in the ipf headlight upgrade kit, the one with the replacement harness, i pulled it from my tj to use in the jk for a bit. All was fine and dandy, until i fired up the engine, with the lights on the relays started buzzing, redone all the earths, re checked everything, replaced the relays, still doing it. A quick look at the jk forum revealed that there is a drama with the harness working in with the can bus system in the jk, the jk uses a pulsed electrical system which doesnt give a constant signal to the relays causing them to buzzzzzzz. The fix is to cut up the harness and put in some capacitors and diodes to fix it. Has anyone had this problem??? it also seemed to be common when wiring up spotlights too, but my spotlights never did it???? I couldnt be ass'ed cuting up my harness, i think i will just put some bigger bulbs in it and live with it

[Laz]

mmm - don't give up on the ipf harness - and you won't need to cut into your original one either.

I'll suss out what needs to be done with modifying the add in loom with a capacitor and will post up where it need to be added over the next week or so.

My initial punt will be to put an electrolytic cap inline with pin 86 of the relay (where the switching power comes from)

[BrisNut]

What wattage are the original lamps anyway and what wattage are people putting in without problems?

[SeaComms]

The originals are the only legal wattage you can run - 55/60 watt. Higher than this is not legal, but does improve your lighting!

If you simply go down to Super Cheap or similar and pick up some 90/100 watt globes and stick them in, it will be brighter, however you will find one or both stops working fairly soon, as the connectors on the back overheat and start melting. Either that, or the wiring itself will start to melt and short out then blow your headlight fuses.

To do this properly you need to buy or build a new high current capable loom, powered by a relay feeding power to the new lights direct from the battery and switched on/off by the original connector.

Bit of stuffing around to build one yourself but not impossible. What I was not aware of though is the pulsed electrical system I read above. As mentioned by Laz, simply putting a decent sized electrolytic capacitor across the coil terminals on the relay could solve this problem, but since I am not yet aware of why the system is pulsing I would be hesitant to do this until further information comes to light. Will look into it myself as well :)

[BrisNut]

The originals are the only legal wattage you can run - 55/60 watt. Higher than this is not legal, but does improve your lighting!

If you simply go down to Super Cheap or similar and pick up some 90/100 watt globes and stick them in, it will be brighter, however you will find one or both stops working fairly soon, as the connectors on the back overheat and start melting. Either that, or the wiring itself will start to melt and short out then blow your headlight fuses.

To do this properly you need to buy or build a new high current capable loom, powered by a relay feeding power to the new lights direct from the battery and switched on/off by the original connector.

Bit of stuffing around to build one yourself but not impossible. What I was not aware of though is the pulsed electrical system I read above. As mentioned by Laz, simply putting a decent sized electrolytic capacitor across the coil terminals on the relay could solve this problem, but since I am not yet aware of why the system is pulsing I would be hesitant to do this until further information comes to light. Will look into it myself as well :)

Yeah I figured that was the case, in the past being an electrician I've usually rewired my headlamps individually with heavy duty relays and some 30amp cable with good results but only fitted 60w/130 lamps, if you lose 10% voltage to a lamp you lose about 30% output.

Those 90/100w lamps just blind other drivers in suburbia like those wanky green/purple/blue tinted ricer lamps do.

[SeaComms]

God I hate those coming toward me!!

[kalani]

i had the same problem with my jk when i first bought it, apparently they dont recommend the looms for use on the JK anymore.

Mine was buzzing like crazy and the headlights (not spotlights) would only work occasionally.

[lovemyjk]

if you use a loom, the computer thiunks thee is something wrong with the head lights, i just run IPF fatboys with out a loom, makes a big difference on low beam, then my spotties pack the punch on high beam

[yetiboy01]

Since I fitted my spottys the auto light on & off function has stopped working, I spliced into the high beam + wire at the headlight, going to pull the fuse for the spotty relay & see if it goes back to normal, but I dont get any buzzing from from relays

[oldmacdonald]

Since I fitted my spottys the auto light on & off function has stopped working, I spliced into the high beam + wire at the headlight, going to pull the fuse for the spotty relay & see if it goes back to normal, but I dont get any buzzing from from relays

I don't have this problem and I wired my driving lights exactly the same way FYI.

[oldmacdonald]

if you use a loom, the computer thiunks thee is something wrong with the head lights, i just run IPF fatboys with out a loom, makes a big difference on low beam, then my spotties pack the punch on high beam

I have heard other good reports on the Fatboys, do you remember what they set you back? From memory they're not real cheap but you reckon they're worth it?

I am quite capable of building an upgraded loom, but given the computer smarts in the JK I don't think I'll take the risk of a "Computer says no" moment. Consequently some better globes are probably the best way to go.

My current globes are Hella/Osram which are quality globes so I'll stick with them until one blows, might try a Hella plus50 or fatboy then.

[fil]

What I was not aware of though is the pulsed electrical system I read above. As mentioned by Laz, simply putting a decent sized electrolytic capacitor across the coil terminals on the relay could solve this problem, but since I am not yet aware of why the system is pulsing I would be hesitant to do this until further information comes to light. Will look into it myself as well :)[/QUOTE]

this is only what ive read on another forum, something about the can-bus system operates kinda like AC votage, which is what gives the pulse.

this may or may not be the case, i dont know, but i know that the relay didnt buzz with out the engine running, and at idle it would intermittantly buzz, when i built the revs a little, it would just buzz continuosly. Kinda like it was the alternator doing it, i di change the position on the battery for the positive wire, which, for what reason i dont know,seemed to change the amount of buzz. first i had it on the stud where the main cables attach to the battery terminal, then i put it on the clamping bolt that holds the terminal on the post. There is plenty of talk on the forums about putting capacitors and stuff in, but not much about where to put it.

im going to put the electrolytic capacitor in the ocillating sprocket inhibitor and see if that fixes it. lol.

i took it all back out again and put it back in the shed. bought some narva 50% brighter bulbs and put in it.

[yetiboy01]

I have heard other good reports on the Fatboys, do you remember what they set you back? From memory they're not real cheap but you reckon they're worth it?

I am quite capable of building an upgraded loom, but given the computer smarts in the JK I don't think I'll take the risk of a "Computer says no" moment. Consequently some better globes are probably the best way to go.

My current globes are Hella/Osram which are quality globes so I'll stick with them until one blows, might try a Hella plus50 or fatboy then.
I wouldnt recommend fat boys, they ok for the road but I blew 2 fat boy globes driving on the corrugations at Inaminka in about 1 hrs of dirt road driving & at that price they are highly overrated for the extra light they put out

[oldmacdonald]

Thanks for the tip. Will stick with the Hella/Osram globes. As you say, better to have a reliable globe than one that's a bit brighter. Once I'm away from oncoming traffic the driving lights go on anyway.

[drewinmanx]

I wouldnt recommend fat boys, they ok for the road but I blew 2 fat boy globes driving on the corrugations at Inaminka in about 1 hrs of dirt road driving & at that price they are highly overrated for the extra light they put out

I run with my lights on whether its day or night (company policy) and i got about a year outa my fatboys including a 2 week trip up the oodnadatta accross the simpson and back down the birdsville track. All ok

Higher output globes will always be a bit weaker due to smaller fillament but i still like the performance of the fat boys.

[litestorm]

After a bit of research... the JK`s electrical/Audio system is
run by the 'can-bus'. [A network] Each item has a controller that
has various items hanging off it -lights horn wipers etc.

When you take off the normal headlights the controller thinks
you have blown a light at warns you on the dash.
Putting a HID kit can do this also as the resistance [load] changes
again the car thinks you have a blown light and warns you.

How to trick the car ?
You need to simulate the same load so a simple resistor across
the old light terminals should do it. From ground to low and high

The flickering effect is another version of the same problem looks like its caused when you dont have the correct load and it is just the car trying to send voltage out -but the correct load aint there .

Fix: A electrolytic capacitor around 1000uF should do the trick.
-across the relay control lines. A primitive hysteresis in techo talk
[thats ground to the relays control terminal]
Make sure the + on the cap goes to + otherwise BANG !

I just got a HID kit here today and a bunch of caps and resistors ready for action I`ll put it in my 2007 JK soon and sus out what a good value
for the resistor is -and power rating and post


m

[yetiboy01]

There are a few HID kits being advertise that they wont effect the dash lights or cars computer system, maybe they have smarts built into them?

[SeaComms]

Any ideas how much of a load is required to stop the blown globe warning? Is it just a small pull down resistor or is a load closer to the draw of the headlight required?

[litestorm]

that's what im testing the H4's seem to be only a few ohms so it will have to be rather low and maybe 10 or 100ohms @10W +
See what I can get away with higher [ohms] the better.

This funky problem also effects reversing lights unless you wire a + from the battery and keep your old lights in and use them to switch the relay

Once I have a solution I`ll post and produce a small kit maybe

m

[Jeep To Be]

I know this is an old thread, but is anything sorted when it comes to putting in decent headlights?
I was looking at IPF or Cibie replacement headlights, but if the canbus system is going to be a problem, I'll put it off for a while.
I'd like to be able to buy a pre-made small connection loom to wire up the headlights, as I'm sure the Jeep wiring will not be all that crash hot.
I'm not into soldering capacitors or resistors across relays, if for no other reason than I do not trust my electrical skills in that area.:sad:
If it was just a relay and some wiring, I can do that.

[Yom]

As long as you're not changing the wattage of the bulbs the standard wiring and plugs will be sufficient.

Replacement headlamps should just swap in as they are conventional 7" H4 headlights held in by a metal retainer. Very common headlight design. The standard E coded hella lights are diffused properly for driving on the left hand side of the road but not good for light control - issue is if you go to repco and buy a replacement lense from Hella it will probably be the same thing. I am finding that most headlight replacements in the 7" form available to us easily are meant to be for driving on the right hand side of the road or offroad use only as they are diffused evenly not biased left or right. So it is a hard pick to upgrade them - the easiest option may just be to change out the standard globes for Narva +50 or something which is standard wattage but legal for road use.

Wiring only becomes an issue if you want super dooper high wattage bulbs (you don't anyway + illegal) or HID low beam kits (again, you don't want them anyway as they don't work properly in a normal reflector + illegal).

[Jeep To Be]

My thoughts on the wiring is that I am expecting the Jeep wiring to be built down to a price - ie thin wire (read voltage drop) and generally crappy connectors.
If I go with the Cibies, I'd like to wire them via a relay so they get the volts they are meant to get, and at the same time use thicker (read less voltage drop) wire.
This would mean getting the power feed to the relay direct from the battery (or somewhere else) and using the existing headlight connectors as the switching trigger for the relay.
What I am getting confused about is that if I do that, will the jeep think there are no headlights fitted and chuck a wobbly??

[Yom]

My thoughts on the wiring is that I am expecting the Jeep wiring to be built down to a price - ie thin wire (read voltage drop) and generally crappy connectors.
If I go with the Cibies, I'd like to wire them via a relay so they get the volts they are meant to get, and at the same time use thicker (read less voltage drop) wire.
This would mean getting the power feed to the relay direct from the battery (or somewhere else) and using the existing headlight connectors as the switching trigger for the relay.
What I am getting confused about is that if I do that, will the jeep think there are no headlights fitted and chuck a wobbly??

thin wire, voltage drop, yada yada. No offense, but just stick the replacement lights in and see how it goes. If its OK, then great. If its a problem, then go nuts and fix it. The replacement wiring loom you will need to fashion up will need to be able to place some load on the existing light circuits to fool the computer into believing everything is OK. The stock wiring can't be too crap...the computer would care about that??

FYI, As it is with my 08 built JK the computer/canbus does not give a rats what is happening with my lights...lol

[fil]

I ended up just putting in a hid conversion kit. It came as a can-bus compliant kit with one side of the oem harness operating the hid's and a dummy load for the other side of the oem harness.

[drewinmanx]

I ended up just putting in a hid conversion kit. It came as a can-bus compliant kit with one side of the oem harness operating the hid's and a dummy load for the other side of the oem harness.

Hey sounds interesting can you tell us anymore about the kit? Where/who from, how much etc.

Are you happy with the end result and how are oncoming traffic with it too?

Cheers
Drew

[Jeep To Be]

thin wire, voltage drop, yada yada. No offense, but just stick the replacement lights in and see how it goes. If its OK, then great. If its a problem, then go nuts and fix it

Yep, that's what I've decided to do. I figure the new headlights, even with standard globes will probably be a big improvement, and far less hassle.

[Jeep To Be]

I ended up just putting in a hid conversion kit. It came as a can-bus compliant kit with one side of the oem harness operating the hid's and a dummy load for the other side of the oem harness.

Are these legal? I'd be worried about what it does to oncoming vehicles and their drivers.:confused:

[fil]

most likely not legal. I have adjusted my lights down to a practical level to avoid blinding oncoming traffic, and so far no complaints.

I bought the kit from www.hidlghting.com.au Lex is great to deal with, honest and very prompt with the postage. I got the D50HL kit, its 199 plus a bit of postage.
It was a little bit of fiddling to get it installed, I chose to extend the power wires, but that is because i mounted the ballasts and module in behind the grill, i couldn't really find anywhere else that i was happy to put them. The driver side wiring has a eye terminal to earth that side, i chose to extended it back to the battery also. So far im very happy with them, i will be getting hid spot lights also soon. Check out the led bulbs on the site too, I got one for the interior light in the Jk and for the swift also, they are great.

[humdingerslammer]

I fitted the 7 inch delta headlight replacements to the Jk (available from quadratec) and put in 50% + globes and the difference is amazing for such an easy fix. Also added a pair of Narva 225 d/lights (spread and pencil) and this set up has proven more than adequate.

[SeaComms]

Havent tried replacing the globes in mine yet, but the old Subaru Forester I used to drive had exactly the same complaint on the forester forums. Most, as I did, settled for the +50 globes, they made a huge difference. I had also tried higher wattage globes, like 90/110w, but all they did was melt the plug on the back and only last a few weeks before they blew. Never got to try the HID's in the Forester, but do run them in my old XV750 and they work great in it. Never had any complaints about intensity, but did stick with the 35 watt. If you are going to go down the path of HID's, my recommendation is to stay with 35w and go for 4200kv globes to attract the least of the wrong attention. The 4200's are also the highest output for wattage.

[Banshee]

I fitted the 7 inch delta headlight replacements to the Jk (available from quadratec) and put in 50% + globes and the difference is amazing for such an easy fix. Also added a pair of Narva 225 d/lights (spread and pencil) and this set up has proven more than adequate.

Do they have a higher light spread on the right or are they level? Standard here is higher on the left, but I would prefer flat if I was putting brighter lights in.

edited as per Maccas post below... oops, I know it is on the left, just typed it wrong as I was thinking of the US ones as I typed.:wall:

[Jeep To Be]

I fitted the 7 inch delta headlight replacements to the Jk (available from quadratec) and put in 50% + globes and the difference is amazing for such an easy fix. Also added a pair of Narva 225 d/lights (spread and pencil) and this set up has proven more than adequate.

I don't know what side of the pond you drive your JK on, but if you are in Oz, are you seriously saying that Quadratec sell a RHD headlight conversion?
Most US suppliers don't know we even exist, let alone drive on a different side of the road.

[fil]

the lenses are definatly left and right hand drive specific, if you had the two of them in front of you, you would be able to see the physical difference immediately. I you were to put the US ones in you will be shining into the eyes of the oncoming traffic, no matter how you adjust them, its called the "light cut off".

Inconsiderate? depends on how you look at it i suppose. On the highway i can see everything i need to see to be able to operate my vehicle safely, for me and others. In town its even better, i can see the full width of the road plus some, which means i can see anything approaching the road as well, dogs, cats, pedestrians, cyclists, whatever. I believe the conversion has increased the safety margin of my vehicle by 100%. And like i said, i have had no complaints, even from other drivers that i talk too, and i have had no one high beam me, in fact, i had more cars high beam me with the factory set up then the new set up.

[Macca2801]

Humdinger, the cut off rise to the left is due to us driving on the left and not dazzling drivers as they pass to our right. If an animal was to run out from the right you have a little more time to see it, but if it jumped out from the scrub on the left...well you have less time. I agree with Dave, on multiple lanes it is pointless nowdays, but we dont all drive in the city.

This is a US/LHD cuttoff.....
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/hids/hid-halogen.jpg

In RHD vehicles its the opposite.

Fil, of course you can see everything well, but at the cost of people driving towards you, hence its selfish and inconsiderate and illegal.
While I try to highbeam any HID retro coming towards me...alot of the time I cant due to not blinding other motorists who do the right thing. Ie the guy in front of me or the others around the HID idiot.
So just because you havent been flashed, doesnt mean hundreds havent wanted to.
The laws were not madhe to just annoy you...they were made because your lights are not designed to accept HIDs and you cannot direct the light correctly.

Do you realise there are three main requirements for hid ADR compliance...FACTORY HID LENSES, Auto levelling lights or suspension, and finally, Headlight washing nozzles!!! Due to the glare that even dust on the lens can blind oncoming drivers!

The glare above the cutoff line makes them inconsiderate.

http://www.b15u.com/attachments/general-guides-documents-downloads/78d1248288389-retro-fitted-projectors-vs-hid-kit-7-jpg

Plus 50 are legal and not above the wattage of standard wiring and are adequate...why make your vehicle dangerous and illegal when there is no need!
Throw a pic up of your low beam cutoff against a wall like the first pic Fil...interesting to see how much scatter you have above the line!
Matt.