Not Happy this is absolutly ridiculas

[Mudmonster]

well its been a few weeks since my 99 XJ 2.5L turbo diesel went to the mechanics.

went to pic it up thursday last week the was stuff wrong so i told them to fix it, when back friday still not done, saturday it was all good to go.
i started it up nad it was making a strange noise, left it there again, i asked them to check the rockers as it sounded like a valve not opening or closing. i did notice a loss of power.
monday they looked at it couldnt find any thing wrong with it or any idears what the noise could be tried blaming the egr valve, so i took it to my regular meechanic (he was too busy to fix it at the time) noticed a puddle of oil on the ground the rocker cover was leeking big time.
took it back again they put 2 head gaskets on it stoped the leek for a little while then started dripping again, so i thought stuff it ill fix it my self with a little gasket silicon.

so this arvo i pull the rocker cover off and noticed a major problem, the push rod is not where it should be? see the photo.
now look at the photo its not as if you could notice it, im no mechanic but i know thats no normal.
so this is what is causing the strange noise.
not only is the push rod buggered the rocker is also damange.
so there is a major argument on at the moment and they wont answer the phone, so ill go pay them a little visit tomorrow.

unfortunatly i have already paid them
stupid i know

i will never be going there again for any mechanical work

[Jimmyb]

Threaten small claims, guys I have photos that show your inferior work!!

[anthonygubbin]

Name & Shame!!!

Why did they put two head gaskets on. Surely with two the head would have not tightened down properly? Or has it gone in twice for head gaskets? That being the case something must be warped.

Regards A

[Tallpieman]

Did the mechanic do the damage?

[sssadamsss]

document everything and go to vcat...
its the quickest way to get a response.

make sure you give them the oppourtinity to make good.

[Mudmonster]

Name & Shame!!!

Why did they put two head gaskets on. Surely with two the head would have not tightened down properly? Or has it gone in twice for head gaskets? That being the case something must be warped.

Regards A

they put on 2 rocker cover gaskets together to try to stop the leek??

[Mudmonster]

Did the mechanic do the damage?

they must not have checked everything was put together properly, making ne think what else the stuffed up and if the did everthing right.

they also told me to put it back together and drive it in, i told them im not driving it as i dont want to cause more damage

[anthonygubbin]

lets hope they will fix it? With the rocker cover gasket it is best to get genuine even though they are more expensive. I was talking to my mech today who said on Jeeps some gaskets really need to be genuine as they can be marginally different and cause problems later. What locality was the work done?

Regards A

[Easy Rollins 1]

If that pushrod has opened the valve it may have bent the valve stem-after hitting the top of the piston.

If the valve stem is bent it will be jambed.


Scratch that-prob just bent the pushrod.

[Tallpieman]

Did the mechanic give you a quote to fix the rod and valve?

[Mudmonster]

anthonygubbin:
the head gasket is after market the brand is FAI.
work was done in the coffs harbour area

Easy Rollins 1:
the car has been drive for about 50ks and there is signs of damage to the rocker push rod and the head
push rod does look bent

Tallpieman:
i will be giving them the quote for the parts as they are the ones that stuffed it up.

they broke a hose and i will be giving the the quote for that which is $117
then the push rod price and the rocker
i do have all the parts to fix it myself but im not telling them that. they can buy the parts from me at top $$$

i really wish i had of taken the time and done all the work myself, but i wanted it running asap as i had a 4wd trip planned this week end which isnt going to happen now

the work was done

[Deezelweazel]

Take out the push rod and roll it over a glass plate. It will visible wobble if bent.
OE gaskets aren't always the best. Aftermarket has better (and sometimes cheaper) options.
I would worry about the cylinder interior. It is the outlet which has been blocked or constantly open. Chances are big to have a bent or burned valve. Injected fuel will wash down the cylinder and cause a burned cylinder liner.
Take care that the head is taken off and that this is checked.
Do not tell them that you have parts. Let them replace everything.
It's going to be an expensive repair for the shop.:toilet:

Edit: If things like this happen you can assume they didn't seperate intake and outlet pushrods according to the cylinders. This will cause additional wear and is the cause for jumping out pushrods.
The rods are cylinder and position fixed and not interchangeable after run in.
Rods and rockers have to be replaced as a pair. Make sure they use a tiny dab of special run-in Molykote grease while installing the new rockers and rods.
Grease will wash out after oil takes over lubricating the connection.

Personal opinion: They must be idiots-everyone knows that a doublelayer gasket will not seal.

[Mudmonster]

so today i went the the local jeep dealer.
and got a price on new rockers and push rods.
i was surprised at the prices.
the push rods $17.17 each thought thats good.
but the rockers are $855.83 each set
total price of $3916.75

the mechanic nearly fell over.
apparnetly as its and old vechile they dont have to replace it with new parts?
they want me to get it towed at my cost,
and are trying to blame it on the rockers as they didnt know what condition they where in.

i supplyed them with the full work shop manual, tools and parts to do the job.
if only they had of read the manual. not sure if they have tensioned the heads properly and any other stuff that may have been doged up.

that reminds me, i have an after market temp gauge and have the sensor in the rear of the top coolant rail (or whatever its called) the wire had just bee twitched around the sensor, i told them to fix it too, you know what they did?
put a round speaker terminal on it and never put a nut to hold it in place.
now thats just dodgy.

i am verry annoyed with there attitude to the matter, they where quite scared today, and didnt have much to say.

this is not the end of the argument.

what i was thinking is sellling them all the rockers and push rods i have for say $2000 maybe??, still saving them $2000 :p

[Deezelweazel]

Ja righty- do not pay the costs of being towed. Who has messed it up?
I wouldn't pay 1 cent.
You gave them the manual? Aren't they experienced with that engine? Now you know why I even don't go to the stealer. because they have no idea.

[Mudmonster]

i have no intension of paying for the towing cost as its there stuff up.
i supplyed them with the manual just to make sure it was done right.
i honestly dont think there is anyone in australia that is familier with the VM engine?
i thought i would humor myself for the price and just to see there face when i handed them the bill :D

i told them i will source the parts, i can get the whole lot for approx $350 brand new from a Lithuania. express post so i would have them within 5 days

but im going to get him to do a invoice with a much higher price :D

[Easy Rollins 1]

In the end they will tell you to go away.I'd start legal proceedings now,or at least a letter.

[LSE3.9]

In the end they will tell you to go away.I'd start legal proceedings now,or at least a letter.

This is your only real alternative -either private solicitor [not that expensive for a letter] or Fair Trading. All the rest is just procrastination and game playing.

[Mudmonster]

ill have a chat with my friend today she is a lawyer

[EwenM]

so what happening???

[Mudmonster]

i have written up everything that is wrong, broken, not put back together corrently, stuff that is just plain dodgy, stuff left in the engine bay (like tools and gaskets that should have been used), and the parts required to fix it
and im off to deptment of fair trading wednesday.
as now the injectors look like they havent been put in correctly as theya re pooring out diesel


the reason the rocker cover wasnt sealing was they put 2 nuts on the rockers that where too high, therefore it wouldnt seal

and every thime a look at i find something else they stuffed up

[anthonygubbin]

That is really poor. If I take any vehicle to a mech you expect they know what they are doing. If I need to take mine in cause there is something I can not do myself, the local guys I mentioned on here and their good work, they actually use the Ausjeep and sometimes OS sites to tackle a prob if they have not done it before.
These mobs sound as bad as Profix who just about everyone steers clear of.

It sounds like the job is going to need to be repaired by someone else and them fit the bill, just in case they do more damage. Hopefully it wont have to be a court decison as that could be painful.

Regards A

[Mudmonster]

i would have done it myself but i couldnt find the time to do it as the garage is full and it kept raining every second day, the place i took it in Coffs Harbour is supposed to be really good?? i wont say the business name, but i wont be buying any "TJM" gear from coffs harbour anymore

there is nearly a full A4 sheet of paper full of problems/issues

[layback40]

i would have done it myself but i couldnt find the time to do it as the garage is full and it kept raining every second day, the place i took it in Coffs Harbour is supposed to be really good?? i wont say the business name, but i wont be buying any "TJM" gear from coffs harbour anymore

there is nearly a full A4 sheet of paper full of problems/issues

How about posting the list for our benefit.

Some of what I am seeing is typical of a regular mech trying to do work on a diesel. They may be simpler in many ways but every thing must be spot on. Good old (experienced) diesel mechs dont have a reputation for being perfectionists without good reason !!

Just look at the posts from guys like DW, our friend from Germany, anything that is not perfect he rightfully jumps on !!!
Sorry DW, I am not saying you are old !! ;)

[Mudmonster]

How about posting the list for our benefit.

Some of what I am seeing is typical of a regular mech trying to do work on a diesel. They may be simpler in many ways but every thing must be spot on. Good old (experienced) diesel mechs dont have a reputation for being perfectionists without good reason !!

Just look at the posts from guys like DW, our friend from Germany, anything that is not perfect he rightfully jumps on !!!
Sorry DW, I am not saying you are old !! ;)

i think its more to do with being dodgy and lazy

ill list a few obvious ones.
1. i noticed an odd noise,they couldnt figure it out, so i investegated myself, took the rocker cover off and there was the push rod out side of the rocker.
i have replaced all the push rods and rockers (luckily for free) but they will get the bill

2.oil pooring out every where from the rocker cover, there solution put 2 gaskets on, i investaiged and noticed 2 odd bolts on the top of thye rockers therefore not allowing it to sit down properly as they where too high.

3. broken hose out the back of the intake, there solution cut the end on jam it on and clamp it, problem being it dod not fot on therefore leaking oil and not sealing.

4. after market temp gauge i installed, they decided to take of the nut and twitch the wire around it, then the put a round terminal on it and slid it woere the bolt, problem there was no nut on the bolt to hold it in position.

5. on the vacume line on the metal hose that sits next to the injector pump, had an bolt and a nut through it, they must have lost that and put a screw though the hole.

6. the plastic hose that runs to the oil catch can was on the wrong way wich meant it was hitting the bonnet when closed.

7. the rubber vacume hose was running towards the front of the engine casues it to rub on the pully.

8 the injector overflow lines they must have lost the cap off the very end injector so they put a long piece of hose over it with screw in the end which was leeking out diesel.

9. injectors are not done up properly they are leaking diesel.

10. the EGR valve gasket was not installed they tried to but dropped the gasket on to the chassis and left it there.

11. the gasket that is for the intake was missing therefore leaking air (just before the intake manifold the piece that the egr valve bolts to).

12. broke my hood light and wireing.

13. broke the clips that the bonnet cable runs through.

14. didnt thighten up the air intake pipe on the turbo or the air box.

got on a bit of a role there, i think that will do for now :)

ive said it before but i wish i had of done the job myself

[layback40]

Much as though I would prefer not to classify businesses, I find around here that the so called 4wd specialists are far from that.
For a diesel like yours (& mine) I would look for a good truck or tractor place. They are more likely to understand diesels.

[Deezelweazel]

:mrgreen:
In fact I prefer to go to these old farts, if I have to go. They are able to "feel" the pain of the engine. I learned a lot from them.

In this case...:wall:

Maybe I'm overly cautious- in fact diesel xj are not very welcome in germany- or better expressed they give a s%&!t.
So I learned a lot from you folks!

Sadly a diesel shop specialized in the XJ wouldn't keep me alive in australia, so I prefer being present in the internet and enjoying the comradeship of Diesel jeepers.

PS: And I'm transforming into an old fart too,lol

[layback40]

:mrgreen:
In fact I prefer to go to these old farts, if I have to go. They are able to "feel" the pain of the engine. I learned a lot from them.

In this case...:wall:

Maybe I'm overly cautious- in fact diesel xj are not very welcome in germany- or better expressed they give a s%&!t.
So I learned a lot from you folks!

Sadly a diesel shop specialized in the XJ wouldn't keep me alive in australia, so I prefer being present in the internet and enjoying the comradeship of Diesel jeepers.

PS: And I'm transforming into an old fart too,lol

Sounds like we should get a "Grumpy Old VM Diesel Owners Club" group going on here !! :D:D **):0=

[Deezelweazel]

Sadly enough it seems that Jar Jar Binks has reassembled MM's engine.
May the force be with us to protect from engine fail.;)

[layback40]

Sadly enough it seems that Jar Jar Binks has reassembled MM's engine.
May the force be with us to protect from engine fail.;)

I think Mr Bean would have done a better job.

Maybe those guys who worked on it have a little side line & got too much of a sniff before they put MM's motor back together.

[Deezelweazel]

MM I was going through your "failure" list very carefully this night.
It seems that the "mechanic":
- had no clue about what he was doing
- must be the most unorganized mechanic in australia
- must be a complete idiot- even I still use a digital camera to make sure I know were every part belongs too and how it was mounted (and it is a nice thing to document your work you have done)

Even the fact of putting 2 gaskets on and hoping they would seal is mental retarded.
I've seen a lot of crap-but this guy is my first choice for the Darwin award.

MM I hope you are able to fix the issues. Call them about that and send them the bill. They are going to kill your engine.

[Mudmonster]

i agree Deezelweazel.

the jeep is running good at the moment as i have fixed everything myself. hopefully it will stay running good,
only thing they have got to fix is the leeking injectors now and then i have to go see them about the list of stuff and see what they are going to do?

i also think i have figured out the whistle kind of noise its making.
i noticed this afternoon while looking under it (thinking of how to get all this oil off the engine and get looking like new again) that there was alittle bit of oil on the intercooler, i cleaned it up and found 2 small pin prick holes in the intercooler so ill chuck another one in and see if it stops the noise in not keep looking

[Billnick]

I wouldn't let them within 20km of your car ever again. They will fix the injectors with a hammer. Cut your loss and find somebody else.

[layback40]

What is clear is that they are not on this forum. Or if they are, they are hoping it will blow over.
There are plenty of jeeps up your way with members on here. Your experiences will serve as a warning to others about this particular shop !!

[Mudmonster]

I wouldn't let them within 20km of your car ever again. They will fix the injectors with a hammer. Cut your loss and find somebody else.

there is a diesel service shop right next door i might get them to do the work and bill the other place :p

[Mudmonster]

What is clear is that they are not on this forum. Or if they are, they are hoping it will blow over.
There are plenty of jeeps up your way with members on here. Your experiences will serve as a warning to others about this particular shop !!

no there not on this forum.
hopefully nothing come up tomorrow and i can get in there to see them

[Mudmonster]

well after finding that there was a bolt missing off the turbo that was causeing the whislt noise and no gasket on the oil drian to the sump off the bottom of the turbo i fixed all that.

looked under there yesterday and there was still oil running down the oil return from the turbo to the sump.
i looked closely at it, and can see that there are 2 bolts that are missing from the back of the turbo.
the only way to get to it is pull the mainfold off ans pull the turbo and dump pipe out, it going in tomorrow to get done, under my supervision.

[anthonygubbin]

well after finding that there was a bolt missing off the turbo that was causeing the whislt noise and no gasket on the oil drian to the sump off the bottom of the turbo i fixed all that.

looked under there yesterday and there was still oil running down the oil return from the turbo to the sump.
i looked closely at it, and can see that there are 2 bolts that are missing from the back of the turbo.
the only way to get to it is pull the mainfold off ans pull the turbo and dump pipe out, it going in tomorrow to get done, under my supervision.



Hey Mud that sucks are you going back to the same place who did the initial work and is everything else sorted now?


Regards A

[Mudmonster]

yeah i know, but after some friendly talks we have come to an agreement that doesnt involve lawers etc. i really get along with the manager so i didnt want to loose that friendship over something the mechanic did, so come to an agreement,
when i showed him the list of stuff, the manager took sides with me :D
but its not looking good for the guy who did the work on the car ;) the manger has the list and is going to have a chat with him after the job is done with my jeep.
the manager agrees that it was very poor workmanship done and is now thinking what else the mechanic may have been doing to other vechiles?

hopefull this will be the last time,

oh and to top it all off with problems my AC compressor shit itself :evil:

[Mudmonster]

Jeep is now all fixed hopefully, ill degraese the engine tomorrow and see if there is any leeks, hope not.

[nzoliver]

Hi guys,

Why is it when I read all these forum, that I get the distinct impression that Oz mechanics hate anything not made in Japan?

VM have been building engines for a LONG time.

There are PLENTY of issues here in NZ with Toyota and Mitsubishi engines (diesels & petrols) but nobody bleats about them and they are bigger failures than anything on the non rice-burning stuff.

We don't have the issues generally with mechanics buggering up Vm and other non Jap engines. Some don't like 'em but they are just the usual suspects that have ugly Hilux utes with no bumpers and 40" wheels and think they are real men.

Interesting....

Oliver

[Deezelweazel]

VM have been building engines for a LONG time.


It's not the fault of the engine. It's always the neglecting human (owner/mechanic or both...).:roll: