jeep VM Diesel heating issue

[Mudmonster]

so i have got my jeep back from the mechanic after having the head gsket done and all the heads recond, and then after then fixing it my self ( dodgy mechanic worked on, they are apparently really good??) and finaly getting it running friday arvo, i took it for a drive, the digital temp gauge used to sit around 72-76c round town and 78-82c on the highway now its running at 86-88c round town. havent had it on the highway yet.
even when it idels it will go up to 86c


i did flush the radiator and motor out really well,
it does have a new thermostat, radiator, water pump and new hoses,

just seems odd that it is running 10c+ hoter now
any sujestions??

oh and it has a slight whistle noise at about 2000-2500rpm in first and second

[layback40]

Make sure its burped well !! Air pockets in the cooling system are a worry. Maybe the old thermostat was opening too soon.
Does it get much hotter when you go for a drive?

[Doctor W]

Did they take off the fan/clutch when they did the work on it?......if you don't store it correctly - vertical, as in operating angle - the silicon fluid can leak out of the "clutch" chamber and it won't work properly.

[The Smiths]

probably just the new thermostat, need to give it a run and find out

[Mudmonster]

the thermotat was replaced about six months ago not recently,
it was bleed propely so there isnt any air in the cooling system

fan clutch wasnt removed and it was replaced approx 18months ago

i went to start it its 14c out side and it struggled to start and i just come home down the highway and it got up to 101c and i could smell diesel, got home poped the bonnet and the rear injector is pooring out diesel and the other 3 are weeping, would this be the possible cause or running hot.

i will be going back to the mechanic for the ?? (lost count how many time now) but hopefully the last

[layback40]

the thermotat was replaced about six months ago not recently,
it was bleed propely so there isnt any air in the cooling system

fan clutch wasnt removed and it was replaced approx 18months ago

i went to start it its 14c out side and it struggled to start and i just come home down the highway and it got up to 101c and i could smell diesel, got home poped the bonnet and the rear injector is pooring out diesel and the other 3 are weeping, would this be the possible cause or running hot.

i will be going back to the mechanic for the ?? (lost count how many time now) but hopefully the last

Your having no luck with it !!!
If the diesel leak was the flexible return lines then they should not make it overheat.
How are you measuring the temp? On a warm day (30) mine runs mid gauge at 100km/hr. On a cool day (10) it struggles to make 2 lines past the 40 mark on the gauge.
Has the little valve on the RH side of the radiator been opened for a while to remove air?
The struggling to start may be an air leak into the fuel system. I had one in the plastic screw on the fuel filter housing a while back, cleaned it & did it back up, starts quick now.

[Mudmonster]

certainly no luck, though six years with no issues. then they all start happening at once.
on a day approx 24-26c it used to run about 72-78C. just below the first line before halfway

tonight it was 14c on the way home and it reached 101c

i think the struggle to start would be leeking injectors.

if it keeps it up ill chuck another engine in it, got some lying around

[Deezelweazel]

Show us some pictures of your thermostat. I would like to see it from the side and from the top.
It is not uncommon that they can stuck in a certain position. Your running temperatures have been too low in the past anyway (I was wondering about this in the past). Considering the temperatures of your engine now your temps are running in the normal range.
What brand of thermostat do you use? What is the imprinted opening temperature? Does it show the OE print "Wahler" in it? If not, you have a cheap remanufactured one.

Doc already mentioned the fan and he is absolute right about it!
So second thing to check.


The last one is the coolant itself. What brand and mixture do you use? Do not go under a 50:50 mixture- lower mixtures will run a bit colder- but if you overheat, you are starting to boil and this makes way for the cavity effect.

Temps would only rise if you are injecting to much fuel or have an air supply lack
This could rise your EGT's and is a very dangerous condition. So tell us about the noise- is it raising while accelerating (turbo)?

[Mudmonster]

Show us some pictures of your thermostat. I would like to see it from the side and from the top.
It is not uncommon that they can stuck in a certain position. Your running temperatures have been too low in the past anyway (I was wondering about this in the past). Considering the temperatures of your engine now your temps are running in the normal range.
What brand of thermostat do you use? What is the imprinted opening temperature? Does it show the OE print "Wahler" in it? If not, you have a cheap remanufactured one.

Doc already mentioned the fan and he is absolute right about it!
So second thing to check.


The last one is the coolant itself. What brand and mixture do you use? Do not go under a 50:50 mixture- lower mixtures will run a bit colder- but if you overheat, you are starting to boil and this makes way for the cavity effect.

Temps would only rise if you are injecting to much fuel or have an air supply lack
This could rise your EGT's and is a very dangerous condition. So tell us about the noise- is it raising while accelerating (turbo)?



ill take some pics of the thermostat as soon as i can,
it is a genuine thermostat it does say Wahler in it.

the fan is a little oily looking at the front around the spring.

coolant brand is nulon and its at 50:50 mix.

the noise its hard to describe?
it it gets a little louder through the revs and from 2000-2700 rpm after that it stops and its only first and second gear.

it sounds like air sucking in or getting out where it shouldnt and makes a strange kind of whistle noise.

i have check the manifold for air leaks, around the intake and around the heads, turbo etc, could it possible be due to the leaking injectors?
i might try to record the noise, it is quite loud.

thanks for the info

[layback40]

ill take some pics of the thermostat as soon as i can,
it is a genuine thermostat it does say Wahler in it.

the fan is a little oily looking at the front around the spring.

coolant brand is nulon and its at 50:50 mix.

the noise its hard to describe?
it it gets a little louder through the revs and from 2000-2700 rpm after that it stops and its only first and second gear.

it sounds like air sucking in or getting out where it shouldnt and makes a strange kind of whistle noise.

i have check the manifold for air leaks, around the intake and around the heads, turbo etc, could it possible be due to the leaking injectors?
i might try to record the noise, it is quite loud.

thanks for the info

An old test for fan clutches is to roll up a news paper, by letting it contact the fan at idle, you should be able to stop the fan when the engine is cold. When its hot the paper wont stop the fan if the clutch is good.

Could the whistle be the fan?

Are the flex pipes to & from the intercooler good?

[Deezelweazel]

All fan shroud seals back in place?
Missing seals increase bypass air flow- decreasing cooling efficiency.

[Mudmonster]

An old test for fan clutches is to roll up a news paper, by letting it contact the fan at idle, you should be able to stop the fan when the engine is cold. When its hot the paper wont stop the fan if the clutch is good.

Could the whistle be the fan?

Are the flex pipes to & from the intercooler good?

i have custom made metal intercooler pipes i might double check if the clamps are tight but i think it still hold boost at 15psi

[Mudmonster]

i think i have figured out the whistle kind of noise its making.
i noticed this afternoon while looking under it (thinking of how to get all this oil off the engine and get looking like new again) that there was alittle bit of oil on the intercooler, i cleaned it up and found 2 small pin prick holes in the intercooler so ill chuck another one in and see if it stops the noise in not keep looking

[Deezelweazel]

oil in the intercooler is normal- it is seeping in while under partial load via the turbocharger compressor seals.

[Mudmonster]

oil in the intercooler is normal- it is seeping in while under partial load via the turbocharger compressor seals.

i thought it was normal,
but the oil is leaking out the rear of the intercooler in the ribs between the cooling fins on the fan side of the cooler, looks like something must have been rubbing on it and caused a few holes, but there is nothing there to rub on it?

in regards to the fan shroud the bottom half is broken off around the intercooler

[Deezelweazel]

Can yiou repair or exchange it? It is important against overheating.
Holes in the IC are commonly caused by corrosion- The IC is at least 10 years old...

[Mudmonster]

Can yiou repair or exchange it? It is important against overheating.
Holes in the IC are commonly caused by corrosion- The IC is at least 10 years old...

im going to try to repair it.
if not i have a few spares one that will get me out of trouble for a while.

[Mudmonster]

i found 3 holes in the intercooler today all in a row, going to try some mutli metal epoxy tomorrow see if that will seal it for a while.

all the paint is lifting and it corroding under the paint so i think ill be lucky to get 12 months before it pops a hole some where else

also noticed 2 of the intercooler pipe clamps were not done up tight, it now goes even better and the whistle is a lot louder :) as its holding more boost

i attached some pics of the holes they are a little fuzzy though

[layback40]

i found 3 holes in the intercooler today all in a row, going to try some mutli metal epoxy tomorrow see if that will seal it for a while.

all the paint is lifting and it corroding under the paint so i think ill be lucky to get 12 months before it pops a hole some where else

also noticed 2 of the intercooler pipe clamps were not done up tight, it now goes even better and the whistle is a lot louder :) as its holding more boost

i attached some pics of the holes they are a little fuzzy though

Good luck with it.
I will be surprised if the epoxy will hold for long.

[Mudmonster]

sealed up the intercooler but it was not the issue, still makeing that stange whistle noise, time too loook deeper into this as its very loud and annoying

[layback40]

sealed up the intercooler but it was not the issue, still makeing that stange whistle noise, time too loook deeper into this as its very loud and annoying

I am beginning to wonder if its going to end up like the add where the girls ear ring was squeaking, or when the guy pulled the dash apart looking for a rattle only to find something in the ash tray !!:D:confused:;)

[Mudmonster]

I am beginning to wonder if its going to end up like the add where the girls ear ring was squeaking, or when the guy pulled the dash apart looking for a rattle only to find something in the ash tray !!:D:confused:;)

no i checked all that :D , its defenatly coming from the engine bay on the drivers side.

i missed a hole in the intercooler so i filled it this arvo. fingures crossed it wont whistle in the morning. if not keep on looking. :cry:

im not going to give up till i find it, even if i replace everything on the car, i think i have enough parts to do it. :)

[amlav]

Try and spray a bit of w40 on the belt and see what happens.
If it goes away than you know that could be the friction on the idler pulleys.
If not than keep looking at hoses or gaskets.
Cheers
Andrei

[amlav]

As I replaced the 2 plastic idler pulleys one my xj with the metal (Ford) ones I've noticed a whistling type noise too.
After a bit of thinking I've realised that the metal pulleys beeing heavier than the original plastic ones have more inertia while rotating and at idle thay tend to sleep
under the belt creating that noise.
I've used a bit of oil fish spray on the belt and that gets rid of the noise for a month or so than I'll spray it again and so on.
The only way to fix that particular problem is to make the pulleys lighter by drilling
holes in it but than you have to be extremly accurate otherwise it will be of ballance.
Cheers
Andrei

[Deezelweazel]

Putting WD40 on the belt is not smart- increasing belt slip.
Replace the pulleys (ccw thread)- they are not serviceable. If you try to grease you destroy the bearing seal.
Metal pulleys are used in the earlier models. Late models use plastic pulleys.
Manual calls for belt, pulley and tensioner replacement every 100.000km.

So they belong into the regular planned maintenance section. No need to squeeze the max out of it.

[layback40]

Putting WD40 on the belt is not smart- increasing belt slip.
Replace the pulleys (ccw thread)- they are not serviceable. If you try to grease you destroy the bearing seal.
Metal pulleys are used in the earlier models. Late models use plastic pulleys.
Manual calls for belt, pulley and tensioner replacement every 100.000km.

So they belong into the regular planned maintenance section. No need to squeeze the max out of it.

X2
You dont need to be putting anything on the belt. You will end up shortening its life.
If you run to failure, you will be doing the replacement in an difficult location ~ side of the road, 1/2 way up a hill climb etc. Nothing worse than trying to fix a car on the side of the road in a suit when you are on your way to something important !!

[Mudmonster]

i have done that before i blow the hose that runs to the oil cooler the one right behinde the water pump, its fun pulling the water pump of a car in 35c heat and raiding the car your towing for parts and water. :D

i have replaced the gaskets still making the noise,
i will check out the pulleys even though it doesnt sound like a pulley noise, but you just never know. ill take them off one of my spare engines, fingures crossed,

i did notice that the belt tensioner is a little hard to move and it doesnt spring back unless you give it a tap so i think it might be buggered, i would hate to think what a genuine one would cost but ill try my spares first.

also noticed the belt is a little cracked, i might replace that while im going :D

fingures crossed,

[murray]

sealed up the intercooler but it was not the issue, still makeing that stange whistle noise, time too loook deeper into this as its very loud and annoying
i had a hole in my hose that made a bad whitl8ing noise

[Mudmonster]

checked the hose first off there is no holes,

replaced the pulles today, still no go,
i think im going to check the manifold gasket, after that its has be defeted, there isnt anymore parts that can be replaced :hammer:

[layback40]

checked the hose first off there is no holes,

replaced the pulles today, still no go,
i think im going to check the manifold gasket, after that its has be defeted, there isnt anymore parts that can be replaced :hammer:


I am just about out of suggestions as well !!:confused::confused:

[Deezelweazel]

oh, there are some more things to check:
a) EGR valve
b) Turbo
c) big pulley bearing holding the viscous fan
d) belt tensioner
e) again intercooler and hoses- replace the clips with constant tension hose clamps

[Mudmonster]

oh, there are some more things to check:
a) EGR valve
b) Turbo
c) big pulley bearing holding the viscous fan
d) belt tensioner
e) again intercooler and hoses- replace the clips with constant tension hose clamps

i have checked the EGR vlave cleaned it up replaced all the gaskets,there is a small hole on the inside that was blocked up, cleared it out it goes so much better now.
check the turbo feels fine
didnt check the big pulley bearing holding the viscous fan though (will do that today)
replaced the belt tensioner.
i have have custom steel pipes intercooler pipes and proper hose clamps that bolt up, so theres no leeks on that side of things.

fingures crossed it that pulley bearing.

thanks everyone for the suggestions

[asa_22]

hey im having what sounds like the same problem spent the day trying to find this whistle when im driving sounds like it is coming from behind the dash, coming through the vents on the drivers side, i know it is not and is coming from the engine bay anyway removed and inspected all the cooler hoses they all seem fine, put them back on and made sure the where done up nice and tight with new clamps. then removed the drive belt and ran the engine still the noise was there so i know that at least on mine it is not related to anything run off that belt. the other day i removed, cleaned and then replaced with new gaskets the EGR valve anyway still no luck. im thinking it could be my inlet manifold gasket too im gonna make up a quick pipe from the compressor out straight to the manifold and see how it goes before i remove the manifold, looks like a reasonable job to do.

[Deezelweazel]

manthatpostisgoodtoreadmakesureyoudon'tusereturnin thefuture.;)

Removing the intake is always combined with removing the exhaust manifold.
Since you can't reuse the old gaskets and nuts it's gonna cost you some bucks.
How did you check the turbo? Do you know the correct procedure?

[Mudmonster]

this arvo i replaced the gasket on the oil drain pipe out the bottom of the turbo to the sump it was quite oily around it (there was als0 no gasket on it), and also noticed a nut missing off the bottom of the turbo to the manifold, took the nut off one of my other turbo's tightened it up, jumped in it took it for a run and there is no noise.

horay, what a head ace that was,

i also replaced the intercooler yeaterday as it just kept poping more small holes its pretty corroded, damn salt air.

[Mudmonster]

on the weekend i was coming home down the highway after a nice day 4wding (no Mud involved) i was sitting on 100k, the digital temp was reading 120-122c the dash gauge was saying about 115c, i was running 30psi in the tyres normially run 35-38psi.

now as all the heads have been done, new radiator, water pump etc,
could there be a possiblity that there is a blocakge in the engine somewhere?
any idears how to check with out pulling the engine to bits?
i recenty ran some radiator flush trough it the water come out very clear


i also tracked down a new fan shroud and fitted it yesterday arvo so that should make a little differance:)

[layback40]

on the weekend i was coming home down the highway after a nice day 4wding (no Mud involved) i was sitting on 100k, the digital temp was reading 120-122c the dash gauge was saying about 115c, i was running 30psi in the tyres normially run 35-38psi.

now as all the heads have been done, new radiator, water pump etc,
could there be a possiblity that there is a blocakge in the engine somewhere?
any idears how to check with out pulling the engine to bits?
i recenty ran some radiator flush trough it the water come out very clear


i also tracked down a new fan shroud and fitted it yesterday arvo so that should make a little differance:)

MM we need to cross mine with yours. ;)
I have had trouble getting mine up to temp. Over winter I can only get it to run up 1 mark on the gauge above cold. The heater has trouble warming your feet.:confused:
In the summer on the highway with the aircon going it seldom gets to mid range.

Today I noticed with WOT accelerating while passing at about 130km/hr it starts to hesitate. maybe time to change the fuel filter. :)

[Irishcoffee]

Gents

I'm not an expert in this issue but faced similar issues as well.
I talked to somebody from http://vmdieselspecialist.com/ in the UK and they told that before any components replacement please check your electronics inputs received by the engine.
If you wish please contact them and present your case.
Who knows they'll can help you with some specialised advise.
These guys are dealing on daily basics with Diesel engines (VM Motori especially).
Please let us know upon your outcome.

Wish you luck!
Regards,

John
PS: Personally I've discovered a electronic failure/malfunction of oxygen sensor + thermostat. Have no clue if that was the only cause for overheating but after fixing it my temp stays back at 89C and 1700 rot/min the "classic" position of a VM Motori. Anyway I'll check for solutions to keep cooler the my VM as well.

[Deezelweazel]

John, these guys are known to have a bad reputation(e.g. selling old worn engines as overhauled and so on), in fact they aren't listed in the VM diesel supply chain either anymore. Just be careful.

This is the link showing authorized suppliers by VM:

http://www.vmmotori.it/en/04/03/01/elCentriMondo.jsp?nazione=UNITED%20KINGDOM

JNL offers full service!

And, of course, I'm not related or getting any deals for showing the link. :D

[Mudmonster]

got a very odd issue with my jeep running VERY HOT!!!!!!!!!
today it was 29c i was crusing down the highway at 110k the digital temp gauge was sitting on 140c and the dash one was reading about 120c +. (i couldnt stop as there was no where to pull over and i was in the outer lane)

i switched the ac off and the gauges dropped straight away down to 100c.
i then just switched the fan on (as it was quite warn in the car) then both rised up again straighted away, so i switched the fan off again and both gauges stayed around 100-105c. had to return to the old air con (roll the windows down) :)

when i did stop the water wasnt boiling and it wasnt that hot as i dipped my finger in the coolant.


could i have a fault somewhere??
but it seems odd that both gauges would do the same as the arnt connected to the same place.

any suggestion on this would be great,

i am going to replace the factory temp gauge asap to see if it read differant

[Irishcoffee]

Hi
Do you registered loss of power as well?
It happened to me as you mentioned but get extra loss of power and my JKU just lower its RPM down to 2300 Rpm.
Uphill I had to shift to 5th gear and roll down windows!
Cheers
John

[Mudmonster]

Hi
Do you registered loss of power as well?
It happened to me as you mentioned but get extra loss of power and my JKU just lower its RPM down to 2300 Rpm.
Uphill I had to shift to 5th gear and roll down windows!
Cheers
John


i actualy posted in another thread, my issue has been sorted the main earth termial wire was loose in the terminal, i recrimped it, replaced the temp sensor, moved my winch conrtol box from infront of the radiator and am currently running no thermistat and just water no coolant, temp hasnt gone over 85c since, so im pretty sure my issue is sorted, fingures crossed.

I have got coolant and i will be puting in the thermistate soon.