A suitable engine to replace buggered VM diesel in a 97 xj

[boody90]

Gday,

I picked up a diesel XJ about a year ago for $2500. Only 130000 ks on it, perfect body and interior. I knew it had mechanical issues as it was surging at 2500 revs. I have sinced replaced the air flow metre which fixed this but there are still many issues. I took it to a mechanic who gave me a list of things wrong with and told me he wouldnt touch it and to sell it any buy a landcruiser. I dont have enough money for a landcruiser and there is just something about my jeep i love it despite the fact that it is causing me serious headaches.

On the list he has given me, the turbo is gone, injector 1 is leaking fuel badly, rear main seal is gone and there is diesel in the oil which I am inclined to think is a buggered fuel pump. I know jeeps arent renowned for being the most reliable rigs and parts for a rare car such as an XJ diesel will burn a serious hole in your pocket. Other than the engine the running gear and car itself is all very tidy. Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions of what engine would be suitable to replace it with and roughly how much I am going to have to spend. At this stage am thinking a relatively late model BT50, Hilux or Navara engine. I am keen to stay on the diesel path as I want a good highway car. Am obviously keen to get off road too which is why I want a jeep I know how capable these machines are! I dont plan on going extreme maybe just a good bull bar and side steps until I can afford a lift. Any suggestions would be much appreciated as I am really in the dark here and am finding most mechanics extremely unhelpful as they tell me to sell the thing!
I stubbornly refuse to take their advice.

Cheers guys look forward to hearing back

[eksjay]

"I know jeeps arent renowned for being the most reliable rigs and parts for a rare car such as an XJ diesel will burn a serious hole in your pocket. "

Sell the whole car, and buy a 4.0L Petrol powered XJ. The 4.0L motor is "renowned" for being BULLET PROOF. It will prolly outlast the car.

[boody90]

Cheers for the words mate but like I said I am keen to remain with a diesel as I want the economy. Ive heard mixed things about the petrols too.. I love the loom of cherokees but there must be a reason why wreckers are all full of them

[murray]

seen a merc out of a musso used\

[anthonygubbin]

Where are you located mate. I know where there is a 4cyl diesel engine out of a Nissan Urvan. Fitting it to your mounts may be problematic but it sounds like you are happy to play around a bit.

regards Anthony

[layback40]

seen a merc out of a musso used

I have a diesel MB (w124 om602) as well as a diesel jeep. I would be very surprised if the MB diesel would fit.
You are going to have plenty of fun trying to get all the electronics to work.
A 2.8 Isuzu may fit better. Anything electronic is going to be hard to adapt.

looking at your problems mentioned, none of them are that serious. Turbos are no big deal. A second hand injector pump should be about, I think I have one.
If the VM is solid in the heads, it has life in it.

[rainman]

Have you looked at kits offered by advance adapters? Other kit manufactures. My only experience with a ,road legal,custom install engine transplant, was that at the end of it you could have bought 3-4 good condition stock motors for the cost with 1/10 of the headaches.
So unless you can find a plug and play adapter kit, where all the conflicts and issues are known and have work arounds. I would think very carefully before going down that route.

X2 if you are not lookig at a serious power increase, all that agro for the same power?
Yes anything is possible if you through enough time and cash at it. However It is not an investment it will cost dollars you will never see back, you just have to decide how many you are prepared to throw at it.
personally I would be looking to rebuild with parts sourced internationally ( Lithuania - read mud monsters recent posts)
Good luck with it.
I would also strongly encourage you to get any work done on your engine by a specialist diesel mechanic, rather than a normal car mechanic.
Regards,

[murray]

heaps of movies on u tube

[roboman]

Hi from Spain i have a 97 xjtd the vm is a good motor if you look after it if yours is a 97 or newer with the edc control diesel pump it could be problematic installing another modern diesel plus you will have mating probs with transmission if you need parts let me know a pal of mine has a couple of vm engines, and i have a complete 94 petrol for parts , regards Rob

[Deezelweazel]

I have a diesel MB (w124 om602) as well as a diesel jeep. I would be very surprised if the MB diesel would fit.

Mercedes diesel egines are transplanted very often in the US into Cherokees- custom tranny bellhousings do already exist.

If the VM is solid in the heads, it has life in it.

Buwahahaha- were did you read this? :toilet: That life can be very limited...

[Adrian D]

Fixing that list is definitely easier than swapping in another engine. A swap is not a walk in the park unfortunately. The only swap I'd consider putting the effort into is a Cummins 4bt. Now those things are tough and have plenty of power potential.

[ginjaninja]

Buwahahaha- were did you read this? :toilet: That life can be very limited...


I would definitely agree, Mercedes diesel are not very good, leaking compression washers, poor injector design, poor injector pump design, etc etc

[Deezelweazel]

I pointed this into the direction of the VM engines.

the Cummins 4 BT is too tall Adrian, you get difficulties with the steering.

[ginjaninja]

If you are not proactive, yes a vm diesel can be not so great, dees you know yourself with regular maintenance and being pedantic, the diesel can be a great engine.

If it was mine, granted I looked into diesels but stayed away from them simply due to the fact that they are older now, and cannot verify service history etc, I would get the list quoted on repair that the OP put up, it doesn't sound that bad and then decide from there. If it was more than replacement value then I would make my decision from there!

[Billnick]

I know a guy with a Musso. No end of trouble and no-one can fix it.

[layback40]

Buwahahaha- were did you read this? :toilet: That life can be very limited...


:shock::shock:**):confused::confused:

Too hard to read DW !!!!

I have followed several MB diesel installations into jeeps & other 4wd's here in Australia & USA. The om617 turbo is often used but they never came to Australia. The om602 /603/606 are a more modern motor. Mainly n/a versions in Australia. Anything newer, in particular CDI, are a nightmare with electronic control.

The injection system in the IDI MB's is similar to the VM & many others, Its very solid & reliable. same injectors except the VM has a special one for #1. seldom do the Bosch inline IP's need rebuilding.

The Isuzu turbo IDI are all mechanical, I fitted one into an old Nissan years ago with very little difficulty. All mechanical, only electrical was the IP fuel shutoff.

All the sensors on the jeep engine would become obsolete. How would the computer control react? Instant shut down?

[eksjay]

Why not do something completely out of the ordinary and order a Caterpillar C7 or C9 Engine [and tranny system] from the USA?

There should be no problem fitting an inline 6cyl diesel in the front.

[layback40]

Why not do something completely out of the ordinary and order a Caterpillar C7 or C9 Engine [and tranny system] from the USA?

There should be no problem fitting an inline 6cyl diesel in the front.

Weight & height

[Yom]

Even if the VM's heads are knackered it'll still be cheaper and easier to fix it than to put another engine into the vehicle.

Realistically turbocharger failures, injector pump failures/wear, injectors needing replacing, sensors dying, timing belts needing replacing, water pumps, oil leaks etc they are ALL common issues to most diesels as they get older and the kilometers build up on them.

If you're not able to do the work yourself you need to find a proper diesel mechanic/specialist. More often than not they will know enough about the VM diesels to not be scared of them. VM are really only used in Chrysler group vehicles here in Australia which is why most normal mechanics are scared of them but to a diesel mechanic it is just another diesel engine...VM Motoris can be found in many other industrial and marine situations in Australia and its very likely that a reputable diesel mechanic/specialist will have had dealings with them in the past.

If you post up your location I am positive there will be a few suggestions of who you can go and see.

[Adrian D]

I pointed this into the direction of the VM engines.

the Cummins 4 BT is too tall Adrian, you get difficulties with the steering.

Yep, it is tall, fixable with a lift but it's heavier than a 4.0 :(




If you post up your location I am positive there will be a few suggestions of who you can go and see.

Or he could look around on VM's website, they have dealers and repair shops listed, maybe there is something close :)

[boody90]

Stoked to see all your replies I really appreciate your words of advice as I am very much in the dark when it comes to this sort of thing. I am interested and keen to learn everything I can but still very green.

I live in Brissy and would love if someone can suggest a mechanic who wont take me for a ride. I have been absolutely wroughted by one a couple of years ago and ended up thousands of dollars in the red so try to be cautious these days. I am obviously willing to throw some coin into it, but no more than what I need too.

Could it just be the worn rear main seal that has introduced diesel into the oil or is it likely to be the fuel pump? the car starts and idles perfectly but still surges when driving which could just be a combo of old stale diesel and injector 1 being faulty. Believe it or not the jeep has a full service history in the glove box and was serviced 2000 or 3000 ks ago! this was years ago I cant remember the year.

Look forward to hearing back.

[layback40]

Stoked to see all your replies I really appreciate your words of advice as I am very much in the dark when it comes to this sort of thing. I am interested and keen to learn everything I can but still very green.

I live in Brissy and would love if someone can suggest a mechanic who wont take me for a ride. I have been absolutely wroughted by one a couple of years ago and ended up thousands of dollars in the red so try to be cautious these days. I am obviously willing to throw some coin into it, but no more than what I need too.

Could it just be the worn rear main seal that has introduced diesel into the oil or is it likely to be the fuel pump? the car starts and idles perfectly but still surges when driving which could just be a combo of old stale diesel and injector 1 being faulty. Believe it or not the jeep has a full service history in the glove box and was serviced 2000 or 3000 ks ago! this was years ago I cant remember the year.

Look forward to hearing back.

Rear main seal will not introduce diesel into oil. Many engines have rear main seal leaks. Unless its leaving a puddle under the car in the morning its hardly worth worrying about. How do you know you have diesel in the oil? I would want to see some test results to show this. The most probable way diesel gets into the oil is via a bad seal in the IP. Is the oil level on the dip stick going up?

I am curious about this #1 injector fault. If you have a diesel leak on #1, that is very minor, it could just be the return line. If the injector is loose, it may just need a new crush washer. Injector #1 is just like the others except it has a proximity sensor in it & a special socket is required to remove it. The injectors are very common, same as on many diesels including MB, VW, etc.

The surging could be caused by many things. If the turbo is faulty it could cause it, sensor issues are also a cause. If it was running rough, it could surge when a faulty injector starts to work properly.

If the engine has not been overheated, has no signs of coolant in the oil or vise versa & is low mileage, one would expect it is very salvageable/repairable.

Good diesel mechanics are as scarce as hens teeth. Best stay away from the flashy 4WD shops. These guys are often good at just replacing things until the problem is gone. The parts supply people on here are very good for 4WD stuff, you need a VM diesel specialist. Hopefully some one in Brisbane will post a recommendation. MudMonster knows one guy to stay away from.
A diesel repair place that looks after industrial engines would be a good place, if they have experience with VM diesels all the better.
A diesel injection service place that specializes on Bosch stuff would be useful if it turns out you have a bad IP. Having the injectors all pop tested may be a necessary item. IP rebuilds are expensive & normally unnecessary. They are often an excuse for some one who doesnt know what is wrong with the IP.

Our good friend in Germany, DW, can probably give some more advice on what could be the problems.

I have only had my diesel XJ since the start of the year ~ 25,000 km. apart from a loose connection on the starter, its been very good for what I use it for. I have had/still do have diesel MB's & other diesel equipment. I dont see anything that unusual about the VM, it is a very traditional style diesel.

Good Luck !!!

[mitchxj]

I love the diesel xj's too. It would be worth keeping and fixing the motor if it only has 130,000 like you say.
Mine has 251,000km and its still going well (despite a few past troubles).
I dont know too much about all this but, with all the info and knowledge on AJOR, fixing it would probably be worth it