strange noise when braking

[anthonygubbin]

Hi anyone got an idea on this one. The XJ is making a strange almost rubbing noise when under hard brakes eg more often when towing (not grindy). It kind sounds like the trans is slowing down. It also sounds like a werrr that starts when the vehicle is at about 15kph and then stops when stationary. The tyres are not rubbing on anything so that rules that one out.

Anyone got an idea??

regards Anthony

[junglejuice]

I had a weird noise under brakes on mine, it was a kind of groaning noise but still felt ok, I fixed the noise by changing the pads and rotors, the old ones were bought together off ebay...

[anthonygubbin]

I had a weird noise under brakes on mine, it was a kind of groaning noise but still felt ok, I fixed the noise by changing the pads and rotors, the old ones were bought together off ebay...

yerr it does seem to have happend soon after the pad change. I had mine machined and new Bendix 4WD pads of Ebay.

It is like a groaning noise almost like the engine is groaning as it pulls up. But of course it is not. It does sound like it may be the same noise you had JJ. Did your sound like the front diff groaning or the trans was groaning but of course not that? Was your's worse in tow?

regards A

[junglejuice]

yerr it does seem to have happend soon after the pad change. I had mine machined and new Bendix 4WD pads of Ebay.

It is like a groaning noise almost like the engine is groaning as it pulls up. But of course it is not. It does sound like it may be the same noise you had JJ. Did your sound like the front diff groaning or the trans was groaning but of course not that? Was your's worse in tow?

regards A

It was a horrible noise that sounded like it was mechanical, as for towing my camper trailer has electric brakes so it makes no difference to the cars brakes.
Mine were no name pads and rotors....

[anthonygubbin]

It was a horrible noise that sounded like it was mechanical, as for towing my camper trailer has electric brakes so it makes no difference to the cars brakes.
Mine were no name pads and rotors....

Yerr it does sound like the same thing you had. It too does sound mechanical. I am wondering if the Bendix pads I got were maybe chinese Bendix and not the real deal. Cause $62 inc del, was way cheaper than I have ever got them for and I get a pretty good deal on other pads from ABS.
The noise is not all that loud from what I can tell but none the less it should not be there and there is no shudder.
I might pull the wheels off over the weekend and have a quick look and see if there is an obvious problem other than poor pad material.

Thanks JJ.

Regards Anthony

[junglejuice]

Mine was simply a noise thing, I had no braking issues but I still changed them any way as was very disconcerting.....

[anthonygubbin]

Mine was simply a noise thing, I had no braking issues but I still changed them any way as was very disconcerting.....

Same, my brakes work fine. But when I hear any noise comin from the Jeep that aint meant to be there I start to think the worst. I might go to the local Mech Saturday and just get him to suss the noise. I really need every penny for Tas in three weeks. Hopefully it is just a noise and I can leave it till I get back.

[Cypher]

Yerr it does sound like the same thing you had. It too does sound mechanical. I am wondering if the Bendix pads I got were maybe chinese Bendix and not the real deal. Cause $62 inc del, was way cheaper than I have ever got them for and I get a pretty good deal on other pads from ABS.
The noise is not all that loud from what I can tell but none the less it should not be there and there is no shudder.
I might pull the wheels off over the weekend and have a quick look and see if there is an obvious problem other than poor pad material.

Thanks JJ.

Regards Anthony

Not too sure on the noise but I paid about $60-$70 for the Bendix 4wd pads from Repco. No groaning noises or such but my brakes are still awful, have new pistons on the way and will be completley rebuilding calipers when they arrive.

[Easy Rollins 1]

Maybe the pads moving in the calipers.Are all the anti-rattle clips in place? This is the reason I always use CRC red silicone to hold in the pads,,,,helps absorb any noise etc.

If you strip out the pads now they should have some telltale marks to guide you.HTH

[janddbone]

Could be the auto, lots of Ford ones do that too...

[Hellcat]

I only start to worry if my XJs brakes stop making strange noises... ;)

[anthonygubbin]

Yerr I am gonna slip off the wheels tomorrow and have a nosey. I am thinking it has to be something to do with the pads. But like JJs they work great. The bugger is it does not do it all the time. I don't suspect the trans although I did change the fluid recently, about the same time as pads. I used DX3 so that should not be the problem. It seems to be coming from the pasenger side, although noise travels so it could be coming from anywhere.

regards A

[anthonygubbin]

Just finished pullen the left caliper off and had a nosey. Only thing In could see was there was one grain of sand that had lodged itself between the pad and piston. I also cleaned up the slides as one had a bit of gunk in the bolt hole. So whether that was the prob I don't know either.
However without the trailer and hard braking from 90 down to 5 it seemed to disapear after about three times on the brakes.

The real test will be with the trailer on. Fingers crossed the noise will bugger off. Funny thing was I did three things since around the time I noticed the noise. The two mechanical things already mentioned and I also drove on soft sand. I actually thought it was still in 4WD and for some reason TC had not disengaged but that was just one of many thoughts that crossed my mind.

Regards A

[Easy Rollins 1]

Rub the pads under your boot on a concrete floor in a 8 pattern.It knocks the glaze off and takes out all the lines.

I always do this when I remove pads for inspection.:wink:

[anthonygubbin]

Rub the pads under your boot on a concrete floor in a 8 pattern.It knocks the glaze off and takes out all the lines.

I always do this when I remove pads for inspection.:wink:

Thanks yerr I reckon when I get back from Tassie I am going to pull both sides do what you said and clean up all four slides and re-grease them.

[anthonygubbin]

Damn it, the noise is still there. Anyone else bought the Bendix 4WD pads of the ebay guy? I am thinking they are a bodgy batch or something. I may have been right in thinking they are Chinese Bendix. Also the noise does seem to occur more often when the pads are hot, which suggests to me that they don't like heat. Thinking I should have got heavy duty as I had no problems before.

Regards A

[anthonygubbin]

Hey guys both the rotors and pads looked a little glazed (more so the rotors) could this be the problem. Doing a WWW search does suggest the problem is a common one, on lots of different vehicles and most times annoying rather than dangerous.

Regards A

[Easy Rollins 1]

I think Repco have 4wd pads on sale...around $79??

[asa_22]

i think you should give the rotors a machine and take the leading and trailing edges off the pads ( use a belt sander or something) just take the sharp edges off the pads so they slope say 45 degree up instead of going stright up i hope that makes sense should help

[anthonygubbin]

I think Repco have 4wd pads on sale...around $79??

i think you should give the rotors a machine and take the leading and trailing edges off the pads ( use a belt sander or something) just take the sharp edges off the pads so they slope say 45 degree up instead of going stright up i hope that makes sense should help

Hi I just had them machined so would be reluctant to do it again. As for the pads they are new too so again I am not planning on changing them either. Unfortunatly I am not working 70hrs a week right now to spend more coin on the Jeep, all the money I have I need for my trip away. I will buff the pads like you suggest asa and I reckon I will get a mate to put the rotors on the lathe and buff them with some emery.
It has to be something to do with heat as they are fine until they get worked hard. Even today, if I drive non stop for a while they were fine for the first one or two corners then groaning after that. I think it is the Bendix 4WD pads they are just not up to the job. I think they are not heavy duty enough for constantly towing a loaded trailer.

I am thinking it has something to do with glazing and I put that down to the pads themselves not up to task cause they were fine for the first 1000km.

I will see how they go after I buff them and if that makes no difference I will wait a couple of months and get some Protex heavy duty pads again and maybe rotors depending on how the tolerances are on my current ones.

Thanks guys A

[tazwegion]

I am thinking it has something to do with glazing and I put that down to the pads themselves not up to task cause they were fine for the first 1000km.

I will see how they go after I buff them


They're glazed because they over heated... the fix for which has already been provided by Easy Rollins1 on the previous page namely to rub the pads on a flat concrete surface in a figure 8 motion until the glazed surface is removed ;)


Out of curiosity, when you replaced the pad/rotor combos did you follow Bendix's recommended bedding-in procedure (http://www.bendix.com.au/content/machine-cleaning)? :confused:


Additional brake pad reference material can be found - HERE (http://www.raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#brake_pad_glazing)

[Doctor W]

Try getting some EBC Green pads....brilliant for the relatively small discs and sliding caliper/single piston brakes on a Jeep.

When you do change the discs, get slotted but not cross drilled ones.

[Easy Rollins 1]

I made the mistake putting slotted on my wife's C'dore....never again,the humming under brakes drives me crazy every time I drive the thing....never again!

[anthonygubbin]

They're glazed because they over heated... the fix for which has already been provided by Easy Rollins1 on the previous page namely to rub the pads on a flat concrete surface in a figure 8 motion until the glazed surface is removed ;)


Out of curiosity, when you replaced the pad/rotor combos did you follow Bendix's recommended bedding-in procedure (http://www.bendix.com.au/content/machine-cleaning)? :confused:


Additional brake pad reference material can be found - HERE (http://www.raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#brake_pad_glazing)

Thanks Tas yerr am going to to pull them apart and do what easyrollins said I am going to buff the rotors as well with emery.

On the box it said 'no bedding in necessary' "titanium stripe". Everything else was done properly, machined rotors, greased slides with synthetic grease.

Regards Anthony

[Easy Rollins 1]

The offrroad pads might have a high metal content,hence the noise and glazing after a few kms.(stands to reason)

I was going for them,but might now opt for a std style and cop the more frequent replacements.Bonus will be more grip when cool.Downside will be more dust.

[anthonygubbin]

The offrroad pads might have a high metal content,hence the noise and glazing after a few kms.(stands to reason)

I was going for them,but might now opt for a std style and cop the more frequent replacements.Bonus will be more grip when cool.Downside will be more dust.

Yerr I am thinking that the Bendix 4WD pads are not great. I had Protex heavy duty in there before and they were fine. I only got Bendix ones cause the Protex pads had gone up from $75-80 up to $105 and the Bendix were $62. Next time I am getting heavy duty, just gotta see if someone can get me trade on them.

regards A

[Hamsteh]

Hey mate, I've found my new Bendix pads have always pulled up quite well but have the same groan you are talking about. They don't have the best feel but do seem to pull up fairly well.

Oh and they've rattled the entire time, pulled it all off to try and see why and haven't found anything obvious...

[anthonygubbin]

Hey mate, I've found my new Bendix pads have always pulled up quite well but have the same groan you are talking about. They don't have the best feel but do seem to pull up fairly well.

Oh and they've rattled the entire time, pulled it all off to try and see why and haven't found anything obvious...

Hi Hamsteh that does seem to suggest the problem lies with the Bendix 4WD pads then if you are getting the same noises. Mine too pulls up fine just the damn noise. I might try and contact Bendix and see what they have to say as it seems I am not alone.

regards A

[Easy Rollins 1]

When I was into Rallys many years back the old Metalking pads were preferred.They groaned and were a bastard to stop when cold.Are you finding the 4WD pads stop a bit better whn warm/hot? If so it should point to a high metal content.

High metal content 4WD might be the go on my neighbour's three ton Patrol(not joking,it is),but suck on the much lighter XJs'.The XJ weights as much as a loaded Falcon really.

[anthonygubbin]

When I was into Rallys many years back the old Metalking pads were preferred.They groaned and were a bastard to stop when cold.Are you finding the 4WD pads stop a bit better whn warm/hot? If so it should point to a high metal content.

High metal content 4WD might be the go on my neighbour's three ton Patrol(not joking,it is),but suck on the much lighter XJs'.The XJ weights as much as a loaded Falcon really.

I just spoke to Gary at ABS Morhett Vale SA and after describing the issue he reckons it is more like a slide probem. He reckons they don't see too many problems with the Bendix 4WD pads. He alos reckon glazing tends to cause squeal rather than groan. So now it is a trip to ABS to get some more grease and try that, damn I knew there were somethings I should not have packed away from the shed. I will also deglaze everything and hopefully that will sort it. Now just finding time to do it; maybe tonight?

Regards A

[AD007E]

Hey mate, I've found my new Bendix pads have always pulled up quite well but have the same groan you are talking about. They don't have the best feel but do seem to pull up fairly well.

Oh and they've rattled the entire time, pulled it all off to try and see why and haven't found anything obvious...

I have had no issues at all with Bendix 4WD pads on mine, all of the new Bendix pads have a titanium stripe running diagonally across the pad which helps it to bed into the rotor. Don't forget that if you are putting new pads on old rotors if you don't bed them in properly you will always have problems. I don't know why you would be having a groaning noise, could be that you haven't used and lube on the slide pins, behind the pads and where the metal backing of the pad slides along the caliper.

I use this stuff, it was developed by Honywell (who own Bendix) for NASA to use on the space shuttle so it handles the heat of you brakes no problem.
http://www.bendix.com.au/content/brake-lubricant

[Steve F]

I have BA falcon disks and calipers on mine and run the Bendix 4WD pads (the falcon is the same as the territory) stops great even with the 35's and no strange noises. I'm real happy with the Bendix pads which I put on just before my Cape trip, they've done around 10000km now with no issues.

Cheers
Steve

[tazwegion]

Hey mate, I've found my new Bendix pads have always pulled up quite well but have the same groan you are talking about. They don't have the best feel but do seem to pull up fairly well.

Oh and they've rattled the entire time, pulled it all off to try and see why and haven't found anything obvious...


I was pretty happy with the Heavy Duty (not the 4WD) DB1311 pads from Bendix though I used a brake pad adhesive spray to prevent squealing pads, I guess one day I'll try the 4WD version for comparison ;)


The only issue I did have was locating replacements as auto stores told me the 4WD pads were the only ones made to fit my Cherokee... Bendix.com.au (http://bendix.com.au/) knows better! LOL :D

[anthonygubbin]

The only issue I did have was locating replacements as auto stores told me the 4WD pads were the only ones made to fit my Cherokee... Bendix.com.au knows better! LOL :D

Local suppliers told me the same. Good to know they are wrong.

Regards A

[anthonygubbin]

I have had no issues at all with Bendix 4WD pads on mine, all of the new Bendix pads have a titanium stripe running diagonally across the pad which helps it to bed into the rotor. Don't forget that if you are putting new pads on old rotors if you don't bed them in properly you will always have problems. I don't know why you would be having a groaning noise, could be that you haven't used and lube on the slide pins, behind the pads and where the metal backing of the pad slides along the caliper.

I use this stuff, it was developed by Honywell (who own Bendix) for NASA to use on the space shuttle so it handles the heat of you brakes no problem.
http://www.bendix.com.au/content/brake-lubricant


On the box it said 'no bedding in necessary' "titanium stripe". Everything else was done properly, machined rotors, greased slides with synthetic grease.

Regards Anthony

I did what I always have for 10 years and this is the first time I have used Bendix 4x4 this is also the first time I have had trouble. The problem usually only happens after the pads get hot.

regards A

[Steve F]

I didn't initially bed mine in but the titanium strip made them sound like there was gravel between the pad and disk, so I bedded them in as per normal procedure and had no problems at all with them since :)

Cheers
Steve

[anthonygubbin]

I didn't initially bed mine in but the titanium strip made them sound like there was gravel between the pad and disk, so I bedded them in as per normal procedure and had no problems at all with them since :)

Cheers
Steve

Funny thing is that they were fine for the first 1000km so I thought they would have been well bedded in by te tiime the noise occurred. That is why I was thinking maybe they don't like heat. But it seems your's were fine Steve.

Regards A

[Steve F]

Yep, mine have taken a beating with the Jeep fully loaded up for the last month with 3 people, rooftop tent, 120lt of fuel, 20lt of water etc etc. If heat was a problem it would have shown up already for me. In saying that the BA disks and pads are quite a bit bigger than the XJ ones so maybe the impact of heat isn't such an issue or whatever is causing the noise doesnt happen with the larger pads and twin pistons?

Cheers
Steve

[tazwegion]

Local suppliers told me the same. Good to know they are wrong.


Yeah the DB1311 pads were also used on a short production run of Kia Carnivals (1999 2.5L V6), try asking for those instead if you want to opt for something other than the 4WD pads ;)

[anthonygubbin]

I have spoken to ABS and they are saying it is 90% likely to be slide problem. I bought some more expensive grease off them and greased all four slides. But I am pretty confident I have found the problem now last night, the slides are quite worn enough to create some play in the caliper. Now I have two options either bore & sleeve the caliper and buy a pin kit or replace the whole caliper. Considering I will need the XJ off the road for a couple of days options B is looking much more likely. Probably check Rockauto and get some after Christmas.

Regards A

[Hamsteh]

Completely forgot about this thread, cheers to the folks that replied to my post in here a few weeks back. I'll check out the slides and grease em up like anthony did I guess and see if that makes a difference.

[Cypher]

Don't know if you've had the calipers apart but I recent rebuilt both of mine and there should be no metal on metal contact between the slide pins and the calipers. The rubber dust boot acts as a bushing and because of this there will always be slight play in the flex of the rubber...

The other thing to look at is the ledges where the brake pads sit in the steering knuckle, mine have grooves worn into them and I was reading this can cause odd noises or (in my case) sticky brakes. A good link about these ledges is http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/anti-rattle-clips-1272615/ you need to sign in to view the pics but you can find a login on bugmenot. there are shims you can get (as shown in that jeepforum link) to try and fix this up, rockauto have them and I'll probably order some to see if it fixes my problem.

[Hamsteh]

The other thing to look at is the ledges where the brake pads sit in the steering knuckle, mine have grooves worn into them and I was reading this can cause odd noises or (in my case) sticky brakes. A good link about these ledges is http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/anti-rattle-clips-1272615/ you need to sign in to view the pics but you can find a login on bugmenot. there are shims you can get (as shown in that jeepforum link) to try and fix this up, rockauto have them and I'll probably order some to see if it fixes my problem.

Hmm that does sound quite likely and I seem to recall some decent grooves, after exams I'll pull the lot apart and if its bad I guess I'll just for out for some new calipers - may as well kill a few birds with one stone.

Let us know how the shims go though mate, cheers!

[anthonygubbin]

Don't know if you've had the calipers apart but I recent rebuilt both of mine and there should be no metal on metal contact between the slide pins and the calipers. The rubber dust boot acts as a bushing and because of this there will always be slight play in the flex of the rubber...

The other thing to look at is the ledges where the brake pads sit in the steering knuckle, mine have grooves worn into them and I was reading this can cause odd noises or (in my case) sticky brakes. A good link about these ledges is http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/anti-rattle-clips-1272615/ you need to sign in to view the pics but you can find a login on bugmenot. there are shims you can get (as shown in that jeepforum link) to try and fix this up, rockauto have them and I'll probably order some to see if it fixes my problem.

Hmm that does sound quite likely and I seem to recall some decent grooves, after exams I'll pull the lot apart and if its bad I guess I'll just for out for some new calipers - may as well kill a few birds with one stone.

Let us know how the shims go though mate, cheers!

nah Cypher my knuckles are fine I know what you mean I had the grooves but I welded them up almost two year ago and that sorted that problem.
But what you are saying about the caliper slides sounds more like it. From what you are saying it is more likely the slide boots. The passenger side, where the noise seems to be coming from is quite loose, it has significant flex where as the drivers is still quite stiff with only minor flex. I am thinking the boot is worn in the centre. On the passeneger side I can make it rattle on the knuckle if I flex it enough. It sounds like I do not need new calipers but maybe just a slide kit or two and while I am there might pay to replace the caliper seals.

regards A