PS Fluid in brake system, need list/advice for replacment parts plz

[Mopar69/95]

Yes I know im an idiot!

i accidently topped up the brakes with PS fluid the other week in a lapse of concentration. now the brakes are starting to stick and the rubbers are expanding as i can only just get the reservoir cap back on.

I have a 95 xj Limited 4.0 with ABS, ABS has never worked.

Ive wanted to disconnect the ABS anyway and im thinking now would be a good time as im not sure but it could still hold some PS fuid residue even after flushing the system.

can i just disconnect the ABS lines and cap the inlets on calipers, drums and master or proportioning valve, where ever the ABS connects to prevent any contamination?

so far as a rubber replacement list i have

front LH RH, rear brake lines < Wooders
rear LH RH wheel cylinders < Wooders
front LH RH caliper rebuild kit < Wooders
master cylinder < DBA have rebuilt once, they'll do it again
proportioning valve? < cant find this on Wooders website

anything ive missed?
any suggestions/tips on how to flush system?

also with the rear wheel cylinders i see on wooders their different for ABS and non ABS, since im removing the ABS should i just get the non ABS ones??

Cheers

[Billnick]

I thought about removing the useless ABS in my old falcon but I worried about the comprehensive insurance I had. It could be argued if I had a fatal accident that the wheels locking up contributed to the accident and that the ABS would have allowed me to drive around it. Food for thought.

[Mopar69/95]

Yeh cheers Billnick, i have also seen others ask about disconnecting there ABS and most replies have been similar to yours and i would have to agree.

ok i been doing a bit of recearch on the ABS setup and as its basicly one with the whole brake setup, its gonna be easier to keep together. i didnt realise the brake lines went from the combination valve to the HCU then to the brakes.

"A new design HCU is used in 1995 models. The
new HCU has built-in accumulators that store the
extra fluid released for antilock mode operation. As a
result, the master cylinder and HCU are no longer
interconnected by hoses."

will flushing the brake system as 1 be enough to get all contaminates out of the HCU aswell? as the ABS system hasnt been working anyway i guessing the solinoids havnt been activated to allow fluid circulation into the HCU accumulators? or could it?

if needed, is there a way to flush and bleed the HCU seperatly? i dont have a DRB scan tool to run the solenoids cycles for flushing but can they be hacked into a different way if needed?

[ozjeepster]

Just flush the whole system starting at the L/R - R/R -L/F -R/F ,& If ur still keen on removing the ABS just pull the the 2 fuses from the fuse box in the engine bay , that way come rego time u just put em back in , i pull mine when i go wheeling but have them in for everyday driving round town & on highway ;)

[TheOoz]

Your list looks good. I can't comment on the ABS questions, but the factory manual is a good reference to determine what should be replaced there.

I suggest flushing it before replacing anything, and if you have an air compressor then a brake sucker like an airboy unit would make your life easier. Set it up, start the vacuum, and then just keep feeding new brake fluid through the system.

Then replace your parts before putting new fluid in and bleeding the system of any air.

[Mopar69/95]

Update,
Today i flushed the system with 2.5L of brake fluid. came to about 1 1/2 reservoirs per wheel. the dirtiest fluid came from the fronts and the fronts needed about double the foot pressure for pumping.

ive then removed the master cylinder and perportioning valve as one and sent them both to PBR adelaide for reconditioning. all up quoted about $350, $155ish for master, $130ish for perportioning valve and $45 for new front hard line as nut has rounded. should be ready by wednesday as long as it all goes well.

if the rubbers are buggered but have been flushed, can they still let out contaminates even if used with new fluids? i thinkin if i put the master back in and drive it to a mechanic could residue get back up to the master and stuff it again?

cheers

[rastus2571]

Yes. Unfortunately the rubbers have been contaminated and will swell and no amount of flushing after contaminating will restore them.

The rubbers are not designed for oils so they absorb swell and will not return to the original state.

I did once have a guy who put gear oil in his brakes on a Datsun 200B and I did flush it with metho about 4 times and we got brakes after that.

However for safety and reliability you will have to replace all components and it is not cheap.

Anything that has to do with the fluid so to speak.

Master, flexible rubber brake lines,caliper rebuild,wheel cylinders and proportioning valve.

No need to replace steel lines just flush with metho before your replace the above.

Replace anything that contains rubber brake components.

Sorry mate no easy way out on this one.

You silly noggin, I bet you won't do that again.:(

[Negdriver]

Isn't it possible for him to get all those parts from a used xj?

Just thinking of cheaper options. It would be a real pain to buy all those parts.

[rastus2571]

So you would use used brake parts,not knowing the history of them for your's and your passengers safety.

I am sorry to say after being a mechanic for a very very long time that I know under the assumption from customers asking me to use second hand hydraulic parts for brakes and steering joints, that a lot think that what they get from a wrecking yard is better than what is on the vehicle they wish to put these parts on. Two of the most important components of a vehicle.

I totally refuse to do this. I will not do this.

I am very strong on this issue and I am not going to apologise for it.

For the cost of it you have to put new parts in. It is not worth having an accident. I have heard many times for saving a few bucks. You may get away with it then again you may not.

You don't play games with safety at all.

[Negdriver]

So you would use used brake parts,not knowing the history of them for your's and your passengers safety.

I have a spare XJ and know what fluids I have used on it. I also know the brake parts are in very good nick and are not contaminated. I would be happy to use that than to fork out alot of cash for new parts.

I was only adding in my 2 cents and there are quite a few people on here that have the advantage of having a used spare vehicle to scrounge parts from.


You don't play games with safety at all.

There is no such thing as playing games with safety and I know that because I am currently working for the Gas infrastructure company. Safety is a number 1 priority.


Was only seeing if he had that option.

[rastus2571]

Well thats fine if you know where they come from and the history if it is your own vehicle. How long they been sitting though?

Everything seizes over time mate.

Sorry. I ain't backing down on this one.

Use it if you want. Suffer later if anything happens.

[Negdriver]

Well thats fine if you know where they come from and the history if it is your own vehicle. How long they been sitting though?

Everything seizes over time mate.

Sorry. I ain't backing down on this one.

Use it if you want. Suffer later if anything happens.

It's only a few days old since I took out the diff last saturday. vehicle was running fine before that.

I won't have to suffer since my mechanic is the one overlooking my xj and checking all the parts while I'm there helping him do everything.

But that's enough from me since I've added my 2 cents to this thread. Only tried to help out but got a lashing instead.

Hope you get your jeep up and running Mopar69/95.

[rastus2571]

No lashing at all mate. Just trying to keep things safe. I understand where your coming from.:p

[dazza96]

most of my xj is repaired with second hand parts from brakes to everthing does that mean i will crash in die
hahahaha
cheers daz

[rastus2571]

Yeah probably.:rolleyes:

[Mopar69/95]

Thanks for all the advice sofar

Update

ive got all new parts now ready to go in after i clean the lines. Cheers Wooders, good bloke!! bloody quick delivery too, less than 24hours to here in adelaide.

ive got a couple litres of metho and brake fluid for the flush. im going to start with dissconecting each hard line individually and first pump metho through, then blow out with compressor, then the same with brake fluid. this should hopfully be enough to rid the lines of any oil.

im thinking to flush the ABS HCU im going to try disconnecting all the hard lines, then im hoping during its startup check it might pump the fluid out itself? otherwise i might take it out and see if it can be dismantled or drained somehow out of the car.

all im realy worried about with the HCU is; is it holding contaminated fluid and are the rubbers expanded inside the system which could hinder normal braking fluid flow. otherwise i dont care if its not running as im going to pull the fuses anyway.(its never worked so not realy loosing anything)


Any advice or changes that you would do yourself?
All help is greatly appreciated as i realy wanna get this done right the first time.

Cheers

[rastus2571]

Glad to hear mate.

On the ABS I have found this from the downloadable workshop manual.

From what I understand there are no rubbers in there.
Just solenoids.

I am not knowledgeable on this unit as I have never had one apart.

I may be right or wrong.

Most ABS units just run on solenoids to switch sytem flow.

BLEEDING ABS BRAKE SYSTEM
ABS system bleeding requires conventional bleeding
methods plus use of the DRB scan tool. The procedure
involves performing a base brake bleeding,
followed by use of the scan tool to cycle and bleed the
HCU pump and solenoids. A second base brake bleeding
procedure is then required to remove any air
remaining in the system.
(1) Perform base brake bleeding. Refer to base
brake section for procedure.
(2) Connect scan tool to the Data Link Connector.
(3) Select ANTILOCK BRAKES, followed by MISCELLANEOUS,
then ABS BRAKES. Follow the
instructions displayed. When scan tool displays TEST
COMPLETE, disconnect scan tool and proceed.
(4) Perform base brake bleeding a second time.
Refer to base brake section for procedure.
(5) Top off master cylinder fluid level and verify
proper brake operation before moving vehicle.

[Mopar69/95]

Hey rastus, cheers for that. i knew it had to have the DRB scan tool but i dont have one plus last time i took it jeep so they could bleed the ABS their DRB apparently wasnt working!! this is why ive been trying to find an altenative.

As i said earlier i tried disconnecting the lines to the HCU and letting it run startup to see if it would pump fluid out but nothing happened. it wouldnt even run its startup test. so i took the HCU out. with it out i first tried forcing fluids through the line inlets but the front right wouldnt flow. so i split the top half from the bottom which revealed 4 holes with 4 rubbers, 2 for front and rear main lines, and 2 for the ABS system.

I could then flush each section seperatly and a bit of gunk did come out so was quite pleased with that result. The rubbers looked fine and fluid was flowing freely through each inlet and outlet so ive put the unit back together ready for install.

ive also removed the front calipers and dismantled them. They were FULL OF SH#T. very black fluid and alot of other stuff that didnt look good. cleaned up the calipers and they are still good, not scored at all so just need to be reasembled with new pistons and seals.

still heaps more to do tomorrow but im getting there slowly.

[rastus2571]

As I said mate I am unfamiliar with the ABS HCU unit on the Jeep so didn't comment on it too much.

I mainly worked on Euro vehicles so I was not sure about your unit.

Get it all back together and see how you go after the flush.

You can disconnect the ABS unit but will just have to get the correct lines and fittings after you remove it to route it as per NON-ABS from the master cylinder.

You dont have to worry about the wheel sensors. Just leave them there. If you have a faulty ABS unit the brakes will work in the normal way as a non-abs equipped vehicle.

You'll just have that pesky warning light on though.

I am not sure on the Jeep if you can just pull the globe to get rid of the fault.

Anyone help me on this one. Can't find any info.

I know on the 3,5 and 7 series BMW from 2000 onwards and some Hyundai's that the globe is actually used as a multi function system ECU check and if the globe is removed or burnt out it will trigger an ECU fault whilst doing startup diagnostic checks. The Bentley Mulsane does the same. Tells me globe is out obviously...DOH.

Vehicle will still run fine and do everything, Just the darn check engine light on the others stays on when globe is removed. Not sure if it does on the Jeep though.

[Mopar69/95]

thats interesting about the ABS light. i actualy pulled it a couple months ago cos it was giving me the shits. if i didnt break it when i pulled it out, id stick it back in to see now to see if the ABS does actualy do the startup test.

anyone else know about the light being in or out for the ABS to work?

oh and the engine light doesnt come on with the ABS light out