aircon advice

[BLAKLISTED]

Hey guys,

For those with experience with xj air cons. I know nothing about air cons, I know the one in my xj doesn't work. And my partner constantly lets me know it does not work. Constantly. Did I say constantly?:(

I had someone have a look at it a while ago and apparently the compressor was found to have a buggered seal which had leaked most of the oil and won't hold gas. So the quote for a replacement compressor plus labour was about $1k but that was if nothing else was wrong.

I could probably fork this out to have air con back, but it's the "if nothing else is wrong" part i'm a bit wary of. What else could be wrong? I've read stories of having to rip the dash out in order to fix air con issues which costs dollars or is a PIA to do yourself. I could live without air con but as mentioned before, it's well within my interest to do something about it.

Is that quote reasonable? Any way of telling if it is more than a compressor issue?

Cheers in advance

[ace]

You can have a leak test done with a purple dye. Probs cost you $100+ to get it regassed and then it's a maybe if the leak can be seen.

Changing the compressor is a fairly easy DIY job. I got one for $350 delivered. Degassing costs but if it's already empty then skip that. Regassed cost me about $100.

If its leaking elsewhere - receiver/ drier or the condenser (behind dash) or even the little radiator in front then you will be up for separate jobs anyway - you'll only lose the money you spent on a regas in that case.

It's probs worth the leak test - if it's just compressor - do it yourself. They do recommend doing the receiver/ drier at same time tho, bout $75 OS, much more locally. Again and easy switch DIY then get a place to regass.

[ace]

$1000 does seem a little high tho. Ask f they are doing compressor and receiver/ drier for that price. Bear in mind a degas/ regass might be $150-$200 on its own and they are charging $400 labour if it's just the compressor.

It's like a 2-3 hour job max. Can be done by pulling belts off then dropping compressor out from underneath. i got the usual "jeeps are tricky" shit when i got a quote - hence why I did it myself.

[BLAKLISTED]

Thanks for the responses guys. I think the quote did include the reciever/drier, it was done a few months ago so can't really recall.

Hey ace, were did you get you condensor for 350?

[ace]

It was a compressor not a condenser? (the bit behind the dash).

Pretty sure it was these dudes: http://www.allautoaircompressors.com.au/

[wildturkey]

Why do you have to change the compressor is it's just a seal/ Can't you just change the seal?

Evaporator is behind the dash, condenser up front.

[Raisins78]

Why do you have to change the compressor is it's just a seal/ Can't you just change the seal?

Evaporator is behind the dash, condenser up front.

Changing the seal is generally easy 25% of the time, a PITA 50% of the time due to rusted bits etc (4x4's see more water, mud etc than most) and the rest of the time impossible without completely stuffing the clutch assembly....
They can cost almost as much as a compressor, so for $350....id just get a new one and be happy its all new....

[BLAKLISTED]

Sorry I can't type. It was the compressor and cheers for the link ace.

Yeah what raisins said was what was explained to me. Thanks for the info guys.

Ha just checking out that Link and those guys are local for me. Bonus

[Squid]

Gas prices have gone through the roof since the carbon tax has come in. I'm pretty sure r134a is over $200 a kg now. I am unsure how much the jeep system holds about I'd take a guess its about 1kg.

[Raisins78]

R134a is around $80/kg now (trade cost price) expect most shops to sell it for $120-$150/kg......
Pretty sure the Jeep holds around 900g

And expect it to continue to rise for the next few years too.
Was $26/kg (cost) 12 months ago.....

[BennyWA]

I just had the evaporator replaced.
It was a dash out job and cost me $1300.00 with regas.

The part itself was about $450 and easy enough to do yourself if you wanted to...

I was better off going to work and letting the a/c guy do it for me.

$1300, that was nothing- happy wife, happy life!! Money well spent! :)

[bjm]

Be aware that evapourator problems are quite common on xj s.The dryer is bolted direct to the inner guard with no flexible pipe to evapourator in most cases,constant vibration will transmit to the evapourator causing premature failure.At least mount dryer on a rubber pad to inner guard.Dryer pipe usually has been fitted under tension to line up with the evapourator pipe make sure this tension is released when fitting rubber pad' or fit flexible hose at time of repair

[BLAKLISTED]

Okay so I went through with the repairs on the xj air con today. New compressor, new dryer and they also jammed me for a new heater tap as apparently it was leaking. The new tap was the same as an e series falcon uses so an extra hundred, not too bad.

They reckon they were getting 9 degrees at the vents after all this. This sounds cold so I was in good spirits before picking her up.
However, although there is an improvement I wouldn't say it is night and day difference. I have a digital thermometer and sat it next to the center vent for fifteen mins and got a temp of 20 degrees. Ambient at the time was 23.5. Not that much cooler

Are these systems just weak thus this is normal? Or is it more likely i have a dreaded evap problem? Would insulating the air con pipes under the hood improve the temp?

[anthonygubbin]

Okay so I went through with the repairs on the xj air con today. New compressor, new dryer and they also jammed me for a new heater tap as apparently it was leaking. The new tap was the same as an e series falcon uses so an extra hundred, not too bad.

They reckon they were getting 9 degrees at the vents after all this. This sounds cold so I was in good spirits before picking her up.
However, although there is an improvement I wouldn't say it is night and day difference. I have a digital thermometer and sat it next to the center vent for fifteen mins and got a temp of 20 degrees. Ambient at the time was 23.5. Not that much cooler

Are these systems just weak thus this is normal? Or is it more likely i have a dreaded evap problem? Would insulating the air con pipes under the hood improve the temp?

Mine at the vent reads 2deg after a regass. Inside the cabin on full it will get down to about 20 or colder sometimes it is too cold and I have to turn it off. Did they check the evaporator with the die? That is a reasonably common prob with XJs.

Regards A

[BLAKLISTED]

Dye has been used I was told and it showed up on the invoice. The place i took it to does have a good rep. I forgot to mention readings taken were when my jeep was parked up. Haven't had it running on the open road yet. I did have the thermometer sitting on the steering wheel for a while on idle and the temp climbed to 22.

I used to own a 91 ea falcon and can remember the air con in that being icy having to turn it back, as it would get too cold. Would have thought a 96 xj would be on par with that but maybe I've been spoilt over the years driving newer cars with better systems? Haven't driven in any other xjs with working air so have nothing to compare it to.

[BLAKLISTED]

Hey everyone, I still haven't resolved this issue. I have not had time to return to the air con place that "repaired" it so not even sure if I will be able to get them to diagnose this again for free.

Anyway, I do suspect the evaporator being the culprit only because I have a new compressor and drier now. I even checked the blend door was wide open as people have said this can sometimes only half open when the controls are pushed all the way to right/cold.

I've noticed the compressor is constantly spinning when the air con is on, and does not cycle on/off. I thought if there was a big leak in the evap that would cause to compressor to not spin. Or is there still a tiny bit of gas in the system that is enough to keep that compressor spinning? Any one have any ideas given this new info?

[ApacheResistance]

Hey everyone, I still haven't resolved this issue. I have not had time to return to the air con place that "repaired" it so not even sure if I will be able to get them to diagnose this again for free.

Anyway, I do suspect the evaporator being the culprit only because I have a new compressor and drier now. I even checked the blend door was wide open as people have said this can sometimes only half open when the controls are pushed all the way to right/cold.

I've noticed the compressor is constantly spinning when the air con is on, and does not cycle on/off. I thought if there was a big leak in the evap that would cause to compressor to not spin. Or is there still a tiny bit of gas in the system that is enough to keep that compressor spinning? Any one have any ideas given this new info?


The compressor will always spin. Is the clutch engaging at all? If the clutch isn't engaging the compressor is just free-wheeling.

If the clutch isn't engaging, you most likely have no gas in the system, and most likely a leak.

Have you any friends with a vacuum pump? That's the easiest way to test for leaks. Just try to pull a vacuum in the system, and if it can't pull/hold one it will tell you instantly that you have a leak.

It's free too - if you have/know someone with a vacuum pump.

[BLAKLISTED]

No access to a vacuum pump unfortunately.

Sorry I wasn't more specific. I have viewed the compressor when the air con is both off and on. When air con is off yes the compressor pulley is spinning but there is also a black plate/assemply on the front of the pulley that is stationary (I assume this is the clutch). When the air con is switched on this black plate spins, non stop.

I've read that many people have adjusted the shims on their compressor clutch to get the air con to work. Is this worth doing in my situation? Keeping in mind it is a brand new compressor, I wouldn't have thought I would need to do this.

[ApacheResistance]

No access to a vacuum pump unfortunately.

Sorry I wasn't more specific. I have viewed the compressor when the air con is both off and on. When air con is off yes the compressor pulley is spinning but there is also a black plate/assemply on the front of the pulley that is stationary (I assume this is the clutch). When the air con is switched on this black plate spins, non stop.

I've read that many people have adjusted the shims on their compressor clutch to get the air con to work. Is this worth doing in my situation? Keeping in mind it is a brand new compressor, I wouldn't have thought I would need to do this.

No harbor freight over there? Over here you can get a cheapo vacuum pump for like $50 (which is less than what a garage would probably charge you to test it.)

I'm by no means an expert on air conditioning, so don't take my words as stone.

The black plate you're seeing is part of the clutch. When the clutch circuit is closed it simply creates an electromagnet that allows the clutch to remain engaged and pump freon throughout the system.

You should be able to hear the clutch engaging and disengaging. It sounds like a little click. I know the compressor is also used for defrosting the windows (and i'm not sure if it requires freon to do this.) So when you turn your heat on, sometimes the compressor will kick on as well.

I've never heard of adjusting the shims, so i'm the wrong person to ask. Personally though, i'd assume if you're getting no cold air in the cab, and the clutch is hardly engaging, then you're low on freon.

Just my five cents though. (inflation.)

[BLAKLISTED]

Hmmm, ok. I do hear a click when turning the aircon on. Then that is the only clicking I hear when the engine is idling. I don't hear click click click like the compressor is engaging/disengaging.

[rainman]

Hmmm, ok. I do hear a click when turning the aircon on. Then that is the only clicking I hear when the engine is idling. I don't hear click click click like the compressor is engaging/disengaging.

if it helps-when ever the ac clutch is energised the aux fan should be on.

to me if it comes on and stays on means it is not geting cold enough in the cab.

[BLAKLISTED]

Yes, the aux fan does engage when the A/C is turned on.

It is definitely not cold enough in the cab. The best result I had since being at the air con specialist was 2 deg below outside ambient, at idle in the shade. And this was a day after the repair.

When I picked it up they stated they got 9 degrees at the vents. On the drive home there was no way it was blowing that cold. Perhaps I do have a massive leak somewhere behind the dash. Guess I'll have to go back and confirm there is refrigerent in the system. Thanks for everyone's input.

[ApacheResistance]

Evaporators are known to go on Cherokees. Mine went and I just converted to onboard air and cut the rest of the A/C components out.

Another one of my friends had his go as well and he paid like $1300 to get it fixed.

I wish teleporters existed. I have like 3 vacuum pumps and like 150+ pounds of refrigerant sitting around.

Do they sell that DIY air con shenanigans over there in a parts store? You could try that and see if it helps at all.

[Escapable]

Do they sell that DIY air con shenanigans over there in a parts store? You could try that and see if it helps at all.

If we get serious about climate change .... that gear went quite some time ago ... it's a regulated industry to prevent some types that would prob fill up with LPG and better stuff.... after all.. it's sealed aint it?

I have an evap leak.. works for 48 hours or so then dies.. and they are supposed to (my guy does) use the dye with it so you can easily find the leak.. except under the dash!

I am told it is quite fun to explore the inner workings of the dash ... I fell to sleep reading the FSM about how to do it .. now refer to section .. then to section .... OH! Please.. gimme a simple manual.

[BennyWA]

As I mentioned before, mine leaked under the dash and it was the evaporator.... $1300 later and she's good as gold. Was a dash out one day job. (not done by me)

The bloke didn't use dye, he used a beeping doovilacky to check for gas leakage :0=

[rainman]

lpg works grate. it alot of mucking about - but works a treat.

[cheezel]

There has been a bit of discussion on 'hi-Chill' which is supposedly compatible with r134a AC systems. If you buy the gear (vac pump, regulators, hoses & couplings etc) for a couple of hundred dollars then you can re-gas to your heart's content.

This in itself won't fix your problem but just adding the info to the thread.
- before you go out and buy hi-chill might want to read some stuff & form your own opinion - plenty for and strongly against it's use..

Good luck :-)

[senatorjohn]

Hi Blaklisted

PM sent re contact for advice.
John