Water Pump for 2.5 tdi

[mud_slut]

So i replaced my water pump perhaps 10-15000 ks ago and now its shot. There's about 1/2 inch of play in the shaft and my car literally started eating the belt on the way to work and had to replace the fan belt with a spare just to get home...not what you want to be changing on a friday night, but lucky i had the tools in the car and happy to have gotten home.

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=294&pictureid=1470

and


http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=294&pictureid=1472

The last pump i had was from RE auto. Do you think its worth complaining and getting a replacement one, going to Repco and picking one up for $45 (mates rates) or trying to get one from Jeep itself. Or if anyone has another supplier im happy to try them too.

[layback40]

There is info in the diesel XJ sticky in the XJ forum.

[murray]

did you get the right size there are 2

[mud_slut]

did you get the right size there are 2

right size water pump ? or serpentine belt ? i currently have a dayco 8PK2190 in as a replacement (as suggested by the diesel sticky).



Is this the pump you're referring to Layback ?

Truflow TF8210 Available from Repco - Trade Price approx $140

Do you run one in your diesel ? I went cheap on the RE Auto one and just curious as to whether getting one from repco would see me more then 15000 ks or should i bite the bullet and get a genuine one? If other diesel owners have gone for the repco and haven't had issues im happy with that

With respect to the issues "vb," was having on page two of the sticky (post #41) , people were suggesting the coolant was causing the failure of his water pumps. I run Nulon red (pre mix) and my temp gauge never goes above 90, should i be looking at CAT ELC as suggested by "Murray" ?

[layback40]

I have been using Nulon as well. The green stuff. Not the premix coolant. I run distilled water & the corrosion inhibitor.
My water pump is original (180,000 km) no leaks yet.
I have used dayco water pumps on other engines with no problems.
What was wrong with your last water pump? Was it a bearing failure as well? What happens is the seal leaks & the coolant destroys the bearing.

[mud_slut]

I have been using Nulon as well. The green stuff. Not the premix coolant. I run distilled water & the corrosion inhibitor.
My water pump is original (180,000 km) no leaks yet.
I have used dayco water pumps on other engines with no problems.
What was wrong with your last water pump? Was it a bearing failure as well? What happens is the seal leaks & the coolant destroys the bearing.


My last pump was on its way out when i bought the car. Pretty sure it was original at 140,000 kms on it. I was able to drive it for another 20,000 before it finally went (in bairnsdale) and had to make it back to mornington (that was a long night). The only difference is the last pump leaked when it was on its way out, this pump just has lots of play at the shaft/pulley which is what caused the serpentine belt to pop off.

Off the top of my head i cant think of many reasons why a pump would fail apart from a faulty part, lack of coolant or perhaps even an air pocket in the system ??

any ideas on if it could have been something i have done wrong before i blame the part ? might save me from doing it again

[layback40]

My last pump was on its way out when i bought the car. Pretty sure it was original at 140,000 kms on it. I was able to drive it for another 20,000 before it finally went (in bairnsdale) and had to make it back to mornington (that was a long night). The only difference is the last pump leaked when it was on its way out, this pump just has lots of play at the shaft/pulley which is what caused the serpentine belt to pop off.

Off the top of my head i cant think of many reasons why a pump would fail apart from a faulty part, lack of coolant or perhaps even an air pocket in the system ??

any ideas on if it could have been something i have done wrong before i blame the part ? might save me from doing it again

There should be a drain hole between the seal & the bearing. This allows it to leak when the seal fails & the grease seal on the bearing saves the bearing from coolant. If the hole is blocked when the seal leaks, the coolant is forced into the bearing & so causes the bearing failure. Alternately, if the bearing is assembled without enough grease it will fail. It can then cause a seal failure. So did yours develop a leak first?

[mud_slut]

There should be a drain hole between the seal & the bearing. This allows it to leak when the seal fails & the grease seal on the bearing saves the bearing from coolant. If the hole is blocked when the seal leaks, the coolant is forced into the bearing & so causes the bearing failure. Alternately, if the bearing is assembled without enough grease it will fail. It can then cause a seal failure. So did yours develop a leak first?

no this pump isnt leaking at all?!?!?!? cant wait to get it off and find out what is wrong with it. is there anything else that could cause water pump failure ?

[The Smiths]

. is there anything else that could cause water pump failure ?

belt being too tight will do it - check auto tensioner

[mud_slut]

How do you check the auto tensioner is working properly?

I questioned that as well when I changed a belt over that was squealing a lot only two weeks ago, however I thought everything was ok as the tensioner moved freely and was able to let me change the belt without any issues once I had the 1/2 socket connected to it.

[layback40]

How do you check the auto tensioner is working properly?

I questioned that as well when I changed a belt over that was squealing a lot only two weeks ago, however I thought everything was ok as the tensioner moved freely and was able to let me change the belt without any issues once I had the 1/2 socket connected to it.

If the pump pulley is wobbling as much as you say, the bearing is destroyed. I am suspicious of the shaft as well. It may have broken.

[The Smiths]

How do you check the auto tensioner is working properly?

I questioned that as well when I changed a belt over that was squealing a lot only two weeks ago, however I thought everything was ok as the tensioner moved freely and was able to let me change the belt without any issues once I had the 1/2 socket connected to it.

normally what happens is that people tighten the belt by moving the tesioner back rather than letting it go back on its own.

Mine no longer goes back on its own - but I take care not to overtighten (after destroying a nnew pump in around 400Kms)......

[mud_slut]

im pretty sure when i changed the belt i let it travel back by itself. before i tried removing the belt i tried tightening it more by inserting the 1/2" drive into the auto tensioner and pulling it over a bit more, it moved over say 1/4 of an inch but then just moved back to its original position.

this wouldn't be a sign of the tensioner failing would it as i think it was just resetting itself to its original position.

[del97td]

I fitted a true flow pump from repco in dec 2007 when i changed all hoses etc only thing i did was to give it a shot of moly grease as i do to all water pumps with a vent /breather hole.

[mud_slut]

I fitted a true flow pump from repco in dec 2007 when i changed all hoses etc only thing i did was to give it a shot of moly grease as i do to all water pumps with a vent /breather hole.


Ahh i wondered why i could blow air from the overflow pipe through to the top of the pump. When you mean "shot," you mean with a grease gun ? Im only a little bit concerned about the plastic impeller on the Trueflow pump as this one hasn't even made it out of the box yet

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=294&pictureid=1483

Also wondering if anyone has had to replace the Torx bolts on their water pump pulley before as mine have seen better days, i thought it would be a smart idea to try and remove them while the pump was still on as i could pull the opposite direction on the fan belt. I cant imagine it would be hard to match up at the bolt shop.

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=294&pictureid=1482

[sfedek]

Be carefull with some of the pumps you get.
I bought a brand new pump & found it was exactly the same only different. The difference was that the impella was longer & hit the back of the pump before i could do the bolts up.
Just something to watch out for. I forget the brand it was. I got another brand & it was all good.
Who would have thought.

Good luck.

Eddy

[The Smiths]

the pumps come i 2 impeller sizes 71 & 76mm diameter

[mud_slut]

I'm guessing 71mm diameter is the correct pump size ?

[layback40]

I'm guessing 71mm diameter is the correct pump size ?
Measure your original one.
That broken plastic impeller should not be used.
How come there is so much oil/crap on your pulley? It would cause a belt failure.

[mud_slut]

Yeah I took it back to repco today. I'm still trying to remove the threaded pulley bolts so Ive sprayed them with innox and letting it sit for a day

[layback40]

Yeah I took it back to repco today. I'm still trying to remove the threaded pulley bolts so Ive sprayed them with innox and letting it sit for a day
Forget the innox !! make a mix of 1/2 auto trans fluid , 1/2 acetone (nail polish remover). It is like innox on steroids !!

[The Smiths]

I'm guessing 71mm diameter is the correct pump size ?

you can't guess - needs removing and measurimg, though 71mm will fit anything and get you moving, and cooling still works OK - but can't be at its max

[mud_slut]

Forget the innox !! make a mix of 1/2 auto trans fluid , 1/2 acetone (nail polish remover). It is like innox on steroids !!

hahah ill give that one a shot tonight :)

you can't guess - needs removing and measurimg, though 71mm will fit anything and get you moving, and cooling still works OK - but can't be at its max


ill measure the diameter tonight. thanks for the advice

[mud_slut]

wow jeep finally got back to me with a quote for a genuine one $400. contacted RE auto regarding the pump and i have to send it off for analysis...2-3 weeks before ill hear back from them

debating thought between the trueflow (plastic impeller) and another RE one (metal impeller) my only concern is if it breaks i could end up with plastic shards through my engine as the other pump when it was on its way out was grinding on the pump housing. any opinions would be great :)

[The Smiths]

as the other pump when it was on its way out was grinding on the pump housing. any opinions would be great :)

look at getting a pump and housing .....

[amlav]

Car xj /2.5 TD
I'am resurecting this thread as few day's ago it happend to me to and exactly the same issue. The bearing's where shot .There was no warning as coolant leaking or stufed bearing sound . It just happend suddenly and 220 Km's from home. It cost me a lot to get it towed home including the caravan.
Replaced the pump today and I've pulled the old one apart to see what caused the bearings to self destruct. First surprise was that they are pretty much similar in construction as bycicle bearings which is not the strongest design in my opinion . Second thing are the breader holes , one on the bottom and one square one on top (not sure what is the purpose of the top one) . The top one is an open square hole that can allow washed dirt and dust to fall inside the pump right in beetwen front and rear bearing and can cause damage to seals than bearing damage. Pump was a True Flow one with plastic impeller. Belt tensioner seems ok but I think the tension is a bit much for the type of bearings the pump has.
This are all assumptions and can't realy pin point the cause of faliure . Maybe somebody can help with somme of they findings..
New pump from Repco $210 TrueFlow (same as prevoius one).
Cheers,
Andrei

[layback40]

Car xj /2.5 TD
I'am resurecting this thread as few day's ago it happend to me to and exactly the same issue. The bearing's where shot .There was no warning as coolant leaking or stufed bearing sound . It just happend suddenly and 220 Km's from home. It cost me a lot to get it towed home including the caravan.
Replaced the pump today and I've pulled the old one apart to see what caused the bearings to self destruct. First surprise was that they are pretty much similar in construction as bycicle bearings which is not the strongest design in my opinion . Second thing are the breader holes , one on the bottom and one square one on top (not sure what is the purpose of the top one) . The top one is an open square hole that can allow washed dirt and dust to fall inside the pump right in beetwen front and rear bearing and can cause damage to seals than bearing damage. Pump was a True Flow one with plastic impeller. Belt tensioner seems ok but I think the tension is a bit much for the type of bearings the pump has.
This are all assumptions and can't realy pin point the cause of faliure . Maybe somebody can help with somme of they findings..
New pump from Repco $210 TrueFlow (same as prevoius one).
Cheers,
Andrei

Would be great to see pics of the bearings etc.
Can the bearings be removed from the shaft or are the balls running on a cone on the shaft?

[mud_slut]

Would be great to see pics of the bearings etc.
Can the bearings be removed from the shaft or are the balls running on a cone on the shaft?

i have a video of the water pump and the massive amount of play in her. ill put it up on youtube tomorrow if you like. any tips on how to remove the shaft without doing more damage ? it doesnt look like it comes apart easily :p

Do you know if the water pump pulley bolts are the same for the petrol as the diesel. have been desperately trying to chase down some but no bolt shops have been open all week :hammer:

[mud_slut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4vCYHelQh8

[amlav]

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/amlav/wpumpbearings_zps4c916c9a.jpg
As you can see the bearing closest to the belt pulley is completley gone.
The one behind the impaller is gone to but not as bad altough has a bit of rust showing.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/amlav/wpumphousing22_zpse7d177d5.jpg
This is the inside wall just behind the imppaler .There is an area that shows how the imppaler was rubbing against the aluminium wall due to bearings being warn out. The wear is in the oposite direction of the belt tension and I still think that belt tensioner plays a big roll in the rear bearing self destruction . The force uppon the bearings wears them out than next is the seal that lets water to seep in between causing rust. Also water picks up the dirt build up and james the bearings.
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/amlav/wpumphousing1copy_zpscf284c94.jpg
The outside of pump has one bottom breather pipe where water seeped in beetwen bearings should dreep trough a small ruber hose on the ground as a warning sign that pump seals are faulty.
On top of the pump housing there is a square breather hole (not sure why is there and what roll it has). Trough that hole there is a 2mm wide gap that will allow dust or dirty water from washing the engine to fall in beetwen the bearings .I've found oily fine dirt in there.
Conclusion....at least my opinion is that the belt tensioner is to strong .
Unfortunately can't see how to get arround it because the belt has to drive all the other components (AC,alternator,fan) and got to have tension to avoid sleeping.
Done about 40000 Ks since I've bought the car and who knows how long this pump been on this engine but nevertheless I intend to replace it every 50000 Ks to be on the safe side.
Cheers,
Andrei

[amlav]

i have a video of the water pump and the massive amount of play in her. ill put it up on youtube tomorrow if you like. any tips on how to remove the shaft without doing more damage ? it doesnt look like it comes apart easily :p

Do you know if the water pump pulley bolts are the same for the petrol as the diesel. have been desperately trying to chase down some but no bolt shops have been open all week :hammer:

New pump comes with new shaft all ready to bolt on the engine.
If you want to pull the old one appart you have to use a hydraulic press.
The bolts that are holding the pulley to the pump are 8mm (metric) and arround 25mm long as far as I remember.
To remove the pulley you have to remove the pump than drop the pulley in a vice in such way that the corner edges of vice jaws are just lightly holding the pulley when undoing the bolts.Make sure you don't damage or distort the pulley in the vice.
To remove pump the top water gallery that holds the termostat housing has to be removed (8 bolts/6mm , verry carefuly so they don't snap ,hit the heads of bolts to losen them up), also top radiator hose , top conection of intercooler hose and air filter cover (unplug MAF sensor cabling).
Hope that helps it should take arround 6 hours at your leisure.
Cheers,
Andrei

[layback40]

Thanks for that Andrei. I was interested to see how standard the bearings were.
it looks like rebuilding a pump is not likely to be easy.

[mud_slut]

New pump comes with new shaft all ready to bolt on the engine.
If you want to pull the old one appart you have to use a hydraulic press.
The bolts that are holding the pulley to the pump are 8mm (metric) and arround 25mm long as far as I remember.
To remove the pulley you have to remove the pump than drop the pulley in a vice in such way that the corner edges of vice jaws are just lightly holding the pulley when undoing the bolts.Make sure you don't damage or distort the pulley in the vice.
To remove pump the top water gallery that holds the termostat housing has to be removed (8 bolts/6mm , verry carefuly so they don't snap ,hit the heads of bolts to losen them up), also top radiator hose , top conection of intercooler hose and air filter cover (unplug MAF sensor cabling).
Hope that helps it should take arround 6 hours at your leisure.
Cheers,
Andrei


champion :) i ended up finding some on Friday at what seems to be the only bolt shop on the south eastern side of melbourne :)

one question though, how come the thermostat has to be removed ? i had a mechanic friend help me do the first one that went and i worked through the same process today as i did with him then

-pull airbox out (disconnect maf sensor)
-disconnect lower rad hose (to drain fluid from system)
-top intercooler hose
-remove fan belt
-remove water pump and copper looking bracket thing
-remove bolts from pulley

-install pump with gasket and locktite on bolts
-reconnect hoses for copper looking bracket thing
-install water pump pulley and bolts
-place new fan belt
-tighten bolts while holding tension on fan belt
-connect rad hose /intercooler hose (clean throttle body) / install airbox/ connect maf
-replace fluid and bleed air from system

-> test and look for leaks

is there a step that i might have missed or something i should have checked ? i did check the fan clutch and it seemed ok, spun the blade with the fan belt connected and the fan only moved about 2 blades in either direction.

im happy to any suggestions to my process ^^ im no pro mechanic but i like to give it a go :p


i also may have an idea as to what caused the initial water pump failure. i cleaned by engine bay the a degreaser gun quite a bit a few weeks ago (car was going in for a roadworthy) and i noticed today my water pump over flow hose was blocked half way down..i think degreaser might have entered the water pump through the top breather and tried to leave through the bottom but due to the blockage just sat there and possibly destroyed the bearing ?

[amlav]

[/QUOTE]
one question though, how come the thermostat has to be removed ? i had a mechanic friend help me do the first one that went and i worked through the same process today as i did with him then
[/QUOTE]
There is nothing wrong with your approach . It is just a matter of preferences. Next time probably I'll due things your way . I was pretty edgee
not to snap the water galery screw's anyway.
I've pushed a litle piece of sponge in my top breather and secured it with a bit of silicon arround the edges so dust won't fall in anymore...hope it helps at least protects bearings a litle bit.
Cheers
Andrei

[mud_slut]

There is nothing wrong with your approach . It is just a matter of preferences. Next time probably I'll due things your way . I was pretty edgee
not to snap the water galery screw's anyway.
I've pushed a litle piece of sponge in my top breather and secured it with a bit of silicon arround the edges so dust won't fall in anymore...hope it helps at least protects bearings a litle bit.
Cheers
Andrei

Its all good im always questioning the way i do things..even with a mechanic friend ive noticed a lot of them like to cut corners and wont do extra things for the job such as clean the throttle body etc etc so i like to try and cover off some jobs that i suppose you can "do while you're there" within reason or else my whole car would currently be in pieces :p but maybe i should replace the thermostat..probably better to do it now before it breaks in the future