Tube doors / no doors

[skeletonbobo]

Hi guys,

I've recently decided I love the idea of running no doors / wanting to get some tube doors for my TJ, my TJ is already not road legal in regards to lift and tyres.

However if tube doors are legal, I'd love to run them, I had a read through this thread which seems to suggest doorless / tube doors are legal.

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110807&page=2

However, I live in QLD and I rang the Vehicle compliance regulation place that I was put on to directly from Queensland Transport and the guy on the other end gave me a swift no. He said doors are to remain on unless on private property, he was aware that they are manufactured to be easily removed. However stated that the car doesn't meet ADR regulations with doors removed thus making it illegal to run no doors or tube doors.

Does anyone know better or have more info on the matter, the thread above had some decent info to suggest that it is indeed legal through what seemed like a bit of a loop hole but legal nonetheless but QLD DOT say no but ignorance is everywhere these days hence my thread...

[Wooders]

"However stated that the car doesn't meet ADR regulations with doors removed thus making it illegal to run no doors or tube doors. "
Ring bloke back and ask him which ADR it would fail to met and why.
I would like to hear an actual answer to this ;)

[C0xy]

From what ive been told it is illegal Australia wide apart from Vic, but even in Vic without side mirrors it becomes illegal

[skeletonbobo]

Here is the part I'm interested in which is what a member wrote a couple of years ago from the above thread, I might ring them back and query.



Been doing some research on this lately myself, along with info previously in this forum when someone took NSW RTA to court and won.

Bottom line, if the R point, or approx 100mm above the seat squab is greater than 700mm (stock JK is just under 900mm) then the doors do not need to pass ADR72 dynamic side intrusion. If they comply with ADR72 (or in our case exempt) then ADR29 Side door strength does not apply. And finally, if the doors are designed to be removed easily by the manufacturer then ADR2 for Door locks and hinge strength does not apply either. Obviously we would need new mirrors stuck somewhere.

Send this info to your guy and see what he comes back with. By my understanding it indicates that no doors at all should be OK, whihc means tube doors, half doors, soft doors or whatever should all be fine too.



The info I have collated directly from the ADR's on this in basic form is as follows:


ADR2 – Door latches and Hinges:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2006L01362
Section 2. Definitions
2.3. "Doors" means hinged or sliding doors which lead directly into a compartment that contains one or more seating positions and which are not folding doors, roll-up doors and doors that are designed to be easily attached to or removed from motor vehicles manufactured for operation without doors.

ADR29 – Side Door Strength
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2007C00735
SECTION 29.5. EXEMPTION FROM TEST REQUIREMENTS
Vehicles complying with the requirements of ADR 72/… are exempt from the requirements of this rule.

ADR 72 – Dynamic Side Impact Occupant Protection
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2005L03992
Section 1. SCOPE

This Regulation applies to the lateral collision behaviour of the structure of the passenger compartment of Ml and Nl categories of vehicles where the R point of the lowest seat is not more than 700 mm from ground level when the vehicle is in the condition corresponding to the reference mass defined in paragraph 2.10. of this Regulation.

Section 4. Principal dimensions
4.2.1 Testing Dummy dimensions

No. Parameter Dimension (mm)
1 Sitting height 904 ± 7
2 Seat to shoulder joint 557 ± 5
3 Seat to bottom lower rib 357 ± 5
4 Seat to arm 242 ± 5
5 Seat to H-point 98 ± 2

Regulatory definition: For the purpose of U.S. regulation and GTR's (Global Technical Regulations) — and for clear communication in safety and seating design[7] — the H-point is defined as the actual hip point of the seated crash test dummy itself,[7] whereas the R-point (or SgRP, seating reference point) is the theoretical hip point used by manufacturers when designing a vehicle — and more specifically describes the relative location of the seated dummy's hip point, when the seat is set in the rearmost and lowermost seating position.[7]

[Wooders]

This horse has been flogged many many times over the part years.
AFIK the rules about latches/hinges etc apply where there are doors present.
No TJ had side intrusion bars fitted from the factory.
The obvious key bit is mirrors. although this is easy to address.

That said I can think of ONE valid line of argument that it wouldn't be allowed, but I'm not going to start sprouting that about ;).

Really the fact is, I doubt you'll get any "Authority" to say it's ok - or better yet put in writing.
Also if you aren't being an idiot, you have mirrors and the rest of the vehicle is legit - I think you'd be exceptionally unlucky to be defected. Heck most coopas woun't even notice if the mirrors aren't there (in my experience ;))

[skeletonbobo]

So you are saying by the law they are technically legal but would potentially draw attention anyway?

I'm 3" coil, 2" body with 33's so I think I'm in trouble anyway I just thought the doors would stick out a whole lot more then the others so I was concerned.

Might get them and throw them on when I go camping etc, they do look awesome.

[Wooders]

If you don't want to "Draw Attention" then either tube doors or doorless probably isn't the best way to do it ;)

As for the legality, AFAIK there is NO rule against running a TJ doorless. However on a technical point I can think of why it would be "unapproved".
Personally I love running doorless and would never hesatiate to do it. But if you are worried then tube doors are probably the option for you.
If you are paranoid or afraid of scratching the paint leave the doors alone ;)

[justjeeps]

I have been pulled over with no doors the police officer was cool with it as i had mirrors on but i'am in nsw

[MADbunyip]

Gudday!
it seems it will come down to the individual copper that pulls you over and weather you pass the attitude test :) - I love running with my doors off, I made my own tube doors and run around Canberra most of the summer -

I run 35's - 2.5 springs, 2" body lift but the TJ looks neat and tidy, flares cover the tyres, mirrors on the tube doors etc etc, have been pulled over a few times for RBT, once for out of date rego sticker (was regoed just old sticker) and also been pulled over by a mate who just wanted to have a look at the Jeep, each time they comment on how nice the jeep looks and never a word about tube doors - i also carry around the factory user manual and the sticker that was on the hard top that advises the door and top are for the elements only and provide no stuctual impact inclusions (just incase) - Canberra coppers are usaully pretty good if your not doing anything wrong they dont seem to care.
your choice !
cheers Toby

[thirsty_TJ]

Gudday!
it seems it will come down to the individual copper that pulls you over and weather you pass the attitude test :) - I love running with my doors off, I made my own tube doors and run around Canberra most of the summer -

I run 35's - 2.5 springs, 2" body lift but the TJ looks neat and tidy, flares cover the tyres, mirrors on the tube doors etc etc, have been pulled over a few times for RBT, once for out of date rego sticker (was regoed just old sticker) and also been pulled over by a mate who just wanted to have a look at the Jeep, each time they comment on how nice the jeep looks and never a word about tube doors - i also carry around the factory user manual and the sticker that was on the hard top that advises the door and top are for the elements only and provide no stuctual impact inclusions (just incase) - Canberra coppers are usaully pretty good if your not doing anything wrong they dont seem to care.
your choice !
cheers Toby

Awesome to know thanks Toby I have been wondering about this myself as it would be great to run door less :) do you do it offroad as well? The dust would be the only thing that would be a pain but not something I would worry about.

[tassiecj6]

Mini Mokes don't have doors ,plenty of them still on the road !!!;);)

[MADbunyip]

Awesome to know thanks Toby I have been wondering about this myself as it would be great to run door less :) do you do it offroad as well? The dust would be the only thing that would be a pain but not something I would worry about.
Yeah man!! , mainly off road roof and doorless, feels freaky like you going to fall out all the time - my right leg used to get sore flapping about in the wind cause there is nothing to lean on :) one of the main reasons i made tube doors :);) Dust is a prob but cleaning the TJ is part of the fun of owning it :)
- each to there own and I'm NOT saying it is legal but i do it :) - i have seen plenty of registered vehicles on the road in the A.C.T with no doors - mini mokes, old postal bedford vans, hell motorbikes are a seat with motor strapped to them and i think if it came down to a side impact accident I'd rather be in my TJ a few feet off the ground with solid steel bars and seat belts than on a bike or moke with no doors - give me my TJ anyday, rules are made to be broken :) MY 2 CENTS each to there own
Toby

[H.G.]

Tube doors with the saddle pack on them.. they look like doors then.. just a thought.
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/76676/76676-lg.jpg
or these when in traffic.. quick removal when of road...
http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/98509/98509-md.jpg

[Jeeps]

i used to have a set of full soft doors, never ran side mirrors and never had a problem as most people including police did not notice that the side mirrors were missing because the soft doors looked like... well, doors! Once offroad the doors were thrown behind the rear seats and off we went. There really is no other feeling like driving a TJ with no doors. People look at the jeep and say "i wish i had one of those!"

I sold the soft doors years ago when i needed the money for something else but now i'm getting older i'm quite happy with my factory half doors. My kids love them, and it's legal to drive like that!

cheers