NTK O2 sensor

[Iwannabeajeep]

Has anyone used these on there TJ before rock auto got them real cheap compared to what I can get here.

[BennyWA]

You might want to check the last page of this thread for some links too:http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96152

[bonza]

my understanding is that the OEM o2 sensors are acually supplied by NTK.

NTK being the NGK spark plug company

I wouldnt hesitate in using them

[Iwannabeajeep]

Yeah rodge recommend them to me just was curious considering they are $30aus each and the omix ones here are $127 each seems weird to me.

[Mopud]

Yeah rodge recommend them to me just was curious considering they are $30aus each and the omix ones here are $127 each seems weird to me.

same here, i'll be putting ntk on mine when the tj is running if they need to be replaced. I purchased bosch sensors for my parents' zj and they seem ok. i'd go with the expert's opinion though, Roger has hooked an ********ysis computer up to them and said he gets the best readings from the ntk as they're pretty much the same (if not the same) as the ones from factory.

don't hesitate buying from rockauto either, they have legendary service. you'll have everything delivered to your door in under week. just watch out for delivery fee, if items come from different warehouses or an item changes the dimensions of the package the freight cost will skyrocket.

[stroked]

if you buy cheap then your going to get cheap results...

[GMEMUD]

if you buy cheap then your going to get cheap results...
This is not always the case IMO, I got the OEM Bosch O2 sensors for the KJ from Rockauto a little while back, all four landed at my door for around $200aud, the cheapest I could find here( CQ area) were generic ones without the plugs on them was around the $140 each. Quality has little to do with the prices we are charged here in Oz, it's more the running costs of a buisness here compared to elswhere and small stock turnover.
Regards

[itchy]

Think he was talkin about cheap Chinese imitation junk, not top brands like Bosch and NGK/NTK.

[Jonesy]

Yeah rodge recommend them to me just was curious considering they are $30aus each and the omix ones here are $127 each seems weird to me.

Where can you get them for $30 ?

[Doctor W]

Think he was talkin about cheap Chinese imitation junk, not top brands like Bosch and NGK/NTK.

Shit eh.....now the chinese are making CHEAP imitations of junk!

.........who would've thought........

.....................gadzooks!, what next?:!:

[Jeeps]

I'm going to replace my o2 sensors because i've been getting higher fuel usage lately plus the fact i've done 140,000klm with the factory ones. My only problem is which ones to go for. I've had a look around the web and come the conclusion that 1997-1999 TJ's have 2 o2 sensors which are:

Pre Cat NTK #231151
Post Cat NTK #23099

2000+ TJ's supposedly have 4x o2 sensors. 2000 TJ's sensor list:

Rear Pre-Cat upstream NTK #23506
Rear Post-Cat downstream NTK #23099
Front Pre-Cat upstream NTK # 23099
Front Post-Cat downstream # 23110

2001-2003 are listed as:

Front Pre-cat NTK #23139
Front Post-cat NTK #23142
Rear Pre-cat NTK #23138
Rear Post-cat NTK #23141

And then there's another 4 different part numbers for 2004+ TJ's.

My problem is than according to my VIN# mine's a 2002 (which makes sense seeing as i bought it new from the dealer in 2002) however i can only find 2x o2 sensors. I don't seem to have any little cat converters up near the headers that i know later models supposedly had. I can only find 2x sensors in the exhaust system located before and after the cat converter which is located down above the t-case bashplate.

Does this mean that i should go with the 97-99 model o2 sensors as those years appear to be the only ones in the US that only had 2x o2 sensors?

Has anyone else had this issue? Can anyone else with a 2002 TJ confirm that they've only got 2x o2 sensors or is my TJ a weird one? :)

cheers

[bonza]

as far as I know the only US Wranglers that have four O2 sensors are the California and later export models. the rest have two

[Jeeps]

Yes that's what i thought but it appears that every TJ after 2000 in the US has 4 cats after scouring the forums. Here's a pic of the 4.0L with the 4 sensors:

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/86/o2sensor.gif


you can see the 2x mini cats but i don't have those.

So if that's the case, do i assume that my 2002 is running the same system as the 97-99's and just order those 2x sensors or do i order the 2x rear pre & post cat sensors listed for the 4 sensor 2002 U.S models... The 4 sensor models seem to have all 4 sensors right up near the manifold whereas my sensors are halfway down towards the rear...

i have no idea... ;)

cheers

[Cringle]

I recently ordered two NTKs pre and post from rockauto for my my03 (12/2002 build) TJ, harnesses match up and there are just the two. The website only lists the two for 2002 and 2003.

[Jeeps]

I recently ordered two NTKs pre and post from rockauto for my my03 (12/2002 build) TJ, harnesses match up and there are just the two. The website only lists the two for 2002 and 2003.

Did you just order the rear ones? There's 4 listed on rock auto for 2003 models.

Cheers

[Cringle]

You've made some good points Jeeps. This has got me thinking that I have the wrong sensors in which could explain why my fuel economy has plumeted big time after changing out the o2s.

You are correct in that there are 4 listed for 2003. Having not paid much attention, I orderd part NTK 23141 rear post cat downstream and part NTK 23139 front pre cat upstream. With only 2 o2s it is hard to make sense of the 4 sensor options. But as you said the 4 sensors seem to be right up near the manifold which explains the descriptions of front and rear upstream and downstream for the 4 sensors. Whereas for the 97 with the two parts listed, it's juts 'pre-cat upstream' and 'post cat downstream' - this makes sense and I'm thinking the 97 parts would be the correct ones. I think I'll need to change out the 2 out of the 4 I purchased, with the 97 ones. Logically the 97ones would be correct and hopefully the harnesses are the same.

[Rodgebone]

i just crawled out from under a 2001 TJ which only has 2 sensors and i know for fact our '02 only has two. rockauto lists 4 but it the main difference is in the connector shape itself. ive narrowed it down to one upstream and one downstream specifically to match the factory connectors. they went to using 4 actual sensors between '03 and '05 (think its '05/'06 models only but dont quote me - could be '03 &/or'04 as well)

[Jeeps]

Yes it's a bit strange but i can only put it down to the fact that ours are "export" models in the eyes of the US.

I have ordered the 97-99 pre and post cat sensors from rockauto as i reckon my 02' has the same o2 setup as the earlier 97-99 US models. I'll install them when they arrive, hopefully in a week or two and report back as to whether they work or not. If they don't work i'll then order the 02' rear pre & post sensors - not the front ones! ;)


cheers

[Kiwi Jeeper]

Yes it's a bit strange but i can only put it down to the fact that ours are "export" models in the eyes of the US.

I have ordered the 97-99 pre and post cat sensors from rockauto as i reckon my 02' has the same o2 setup as the earlier 97-99 US models. I'll install them when they arrive, hopefully in a week or two and report back as to whether they work or not. If they don't work i'll then order the 02' rear pre & post sensors - not the front ones! ;)


cheers


Miine is 2001 as well, and it has only two sensors. I would say the only difference I can think off between the ones from 97-99 and 01 would be electronic ignitions. I don't know whether the computer would be same or expecting a slightly different signal. Í don't have receipt for the replacement sensors (wish I had kept it).

[Rodgebone]

keep in mind that US exports are generally compatible to California emission requirements which in the USA are MUCH more stringent than the rest of the country. it usually means an export will have extra cats, pre cats and extra o2s and explains why there are so many different o2 applications listed (as on rockauto) which mainly caters to US customers. this also means our Ozzy pcms are programmed differently than 49-state USA models (California exclusive)

[Rodgebone]

'05 and '06 have 4

[Jeeps]

There are 4 in the 06 I think.

This is a good read http://www.omninerd.com/articles/Improve_MPG_The_Factors_Affecting_Fuel_Efficiency


That's a top link ;)

cheers

[bonza]

here is a parts catalogue link, just select your model and year

http://www.berrysprinter.com/jeepparts.php

I noticed that four O2 sensors are listed for an '02. I would see if an '02 has the same ecu part number for a model that uses two and if so use the O2 sensors for that model

you may also have to ring up your friendly local dealer

[Jeeps]

I have ordered the 97-99 pre and post cat sensors from rockauto as i reckon my 02' has the same o2 setup as the earlier 97-99 US models.


Holy moly they just arrived in the mail. That's like 5 days from the states!

Can't complain about that from Rock Auto

cheers

[Jeeps]

Yes it's a bit strange but i can only put it down to the fact that ours are "export" models in the eyes of the US.

I have ordered the 97-99 pre and post cat sensors from rockauto as i reckon my 02' has the same o2 setup as the earlier 97-99 US models. I'll install them when they arrive, hopefully in a week or two and report back as to whether they work or not. If they don't work i'll then order the 02' rear pre & post sensors - not the front ones! ;)


cheers


Well they do not fit. I have discovered, as you do after you have already spent the money ;) , that the 2x 1997-1999 NTK oxygen sensors i ordered (#23099 + #23151) have a round plug like this:


http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FSMP%2FSG1815_CONNECTOR.jpg&imagekey=1515222-1&width=450



Whereas my 2002 TJ has a square plug like this:


http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FSMP%2FSG1852_CONNECTOR.jpg&imagekey=1514062-1&width=450


So i will re-order the new sensors with the right plug ;)

I have listed my brand new unused 1997-1999 oxygen sensors here if anyone would like to buy them off me as i can't use them: http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1138734#post1138734


I'll report back in another week or so with the results of round 2 ;) The TJ is still getting between 15.5 and 16L/100klm no matter how hard or soft i drive it.

cheers

[LILBRT]

Can anyone tell me what are the part numbers for the four o2 sensor on my 2004 TJ.
I want the NTK ones from ROCKAUTO parts but I cant work out what ones I need.
I sent them an email and they told me they dont know what a 2004 TJ is.

[bonza]

Can anyone tell me what are the part numbers for the four o2 sensor on my 2004 TJ.
I want the NTK ones from ROCKAUTO parts but I cant work out what ones I need.
I sent them an email and they told me they dont know what a 2004 TJ is.

go to the NTK website parts finder and naigate from there

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/car_truck_suv/default.asp?mode=nml

[Rodgebone]

LILBRT

Can anyone tell me what are the part numbers for the four o2 sensor on my 2004 TJ.
I want the NTK ones from ROCKAUTO parts but I cant work out what ones I need.

they only list 4 sensors (from NTK) so pretty easy to figure it out by process of elimination.

u need #s: 23135 ("rear, pre-cat" meaning the rear manifold and on the engine side of the catalytic converter); 23137 ("front, pre-cat" meaning the front manifold and located on the engine side of the cat converter); 23132 ("front, post-cat" so front manifold on the muffler side of the cat; 23531 ("rear, post-cat" meaning so rear manifold on the muffler side of the cat).

when they say "rear" or "front" they are referring to the 2-piece exhaust manifold on later model TJs - the first 3 cylinders are the front and last 3 the rear section. "Pre-cat Upstream" refers to the engine side of the cat converter and "Post cat Downstream" is the muffler side of the cat. that should help take the confusion out of it :cool:

[bonza]

this is from the ntk parts finder
Oxygen Sensor 23137 Pre-Catalyst Front
Oxygen Sensor 23135 Pre-Catalyst Rear
Oxygen Sensor 23132 Post-Catalyst Front
Oxygen Sensor 23531 Post-Catalyst Rear

looks like rodgebone just rodgered me to it ;)

[LILBRT]

Thanks for your help guys that makes it easier to understand.

[bonza]

My 06 is listed as:
Oxygen Sensor 23018 Pre-Catalyst Front
Oxygen Sensor 23160 Pre-Catalyst Rear
Oxygen Sensor 23159 Post-Catalyst Front
Oxygen Sensor 23158 Post-Catalyst Rear

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23158_end.jpg


I think the O2 sensors were changed for 05/06 models compared to the 04 model

[Jeeps]

I'll report back in another week or so with the results of round 2 ;) The TJ is still getting between 15.5 and 16L/100klm no matter how hard or soft i drive it.

cheers

Ok time to report back after 2 months ;)

Rockauto finally got back to me that the parts were back in stock so i ordered another set. This time i ordered the square plugs, NTK#23141 (rear post cat) and NTK#23138 (rear pre-cat). They arrived this week (6 days through the christmas period!) They arrived, yes the plugs were square so i was good to go!

So i unbolted the old 140,000klm o2 sensors and put the new ones on. They already had anti-seize on the threads. However i came across a problem. Can you see the difference between these two square plugs?

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1643414&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23142_end.jpg
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1644150&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23141_end.jpg

There's actually a 3rd style, if you can notice the difference:

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1644022&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23139_end.jpg

Notice how the top plug's side grooves are located at the same spot but on the second plug the two side grooves are not in the same spot?

Disaster! The plugs won't fit. Well actually the NTK#23141 (post cat) fits just fine as it uses an 'out of alignment' plug like this:

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1644150&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23141_end.jpg

Whereas the NTK#23138 (pre-cat) doesn't fit the jeep as it has the same plug as the NTK#23141 but the jeep has either one of these plugs on the front (i can't remember):

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1644022&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23139_end.jpg
http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1643414&imageurl=http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/o2/front/NTK23142_end.jpg


So to solve the problem for the different pre-cat plug I popped the yellow centre out, unclipped the 4 pins and reassembled them into the old factory plug. Plugged it all into the jeep and it works fine. This means that my 2002 TJ has a different factory plug on it's post cat sensor to the pre-cat sensor. Weird.

So a word of warning if choosing SQUARE o2 sensors, there are 3 or more different styles of plug!

BTW, i've just done a tankful and i am so far getting 10-12 L/100klm, better than before they were playing up earlier in the year. My first half tank fillup returned 9.5L/100klm but that has to be wrong - this is a TJ for crying out loud - i'll do a few more tankfulls before i get an accurate reading. I have an improvement of at least 4-5L/100klm plus there's a bit more power too. It holds on the hills/hwy better and takes off better.

I have to do another 2-3 tanks to get an accurate economy result but so far it's a big improvement. I'll report back with the result of my scanguage & manual calculation for comparison.

cheers


(BTW, my fuel economy result is just as good or better than stock because i'm running 4.11 diff gears and 31" tyres)

[krankieone]

I might have to lash out if your getting that much improvement thay pay for themselves in a month

[Jeeps]

So far i've done 2 tanks. I do 80% highway 80-100klm/hr and 20% urban/city. I'm averaging 13.5-14.5L/100klm or so per tank.

cheers

[Rodgebone]

13-14L/100 is nothing to be upset about. sounds good!

[sssboi]

If any one is looking I've got a set of brand new NTK #23138 and #23142, bought 4 oxy sensors when only needing 2. Send me a PM if interested