Need some advice on buying a WJ

[v8_jofes]

Originally Posted by Hammertone

So this car i saw today had red oil in the transmission which i've read as being incorrect.

I'm curious to know what reference has told you red oil is incorrect? I'm running ATF III or IV in mine (can't remember which, I just know it was right at the time I put it in haha) and that is red, and I haven't had an issue yet

Originally Posted by Hammertone

It did skip and shudder a little when turning at full lock on asphalt. I've been told that this is normal operation for a quadra-drive without friction modifier, but is this how a quadra-trac II should drive? I coasted in Neutral at 80 Ks without a sound from the diffs. What do you think?

To be clear here, was this car Quadradrive, or only Quadratrac II?
If it is Quadradrive without friction modifier, they sound like nice tight diffs, which is what you want for offroad, but yes, they will be a little tight in shopping centre carparks and u-turns etc
If it's quadratrac with open diffs, the above symptoms sound a little odd to me, and would warrant further investigation

Originally Posted by Hammertone

The only other issue i had with this car was that it's a limited. I want to, over a few years, build this car into a reasonable off-roader. Are the off-road features of the overland really useful (ie. the rock sliders, quadra-drive, bash plates), or am i better off starting with a limited and installing after market diff locks, sliders, etc. It'd be nice not to have to pay for a lot of that stuff, but i'm sure theres something to be said about having a blank canvas to work from.

That question depends entirely on how much you want to do? How extreme do you want to go? Are you eventually going to want beefier rock sliders and bash plates than whats already on the overland? If so, starting with a blank canvas could be a cheaper option there.

Then the question of axles comes into play. If you want proper lockers later, and know quadradrive isn't going to cut it for you (they'll still lock 33's, but you need to have one wheel spin at least 3 or 4 full rotations before there is enough pressure in the geroter to properly engage the diff, which is fine in mud, not so great on rocks) then go for open diffs, and get an ARB for the rear (yes, they've just started selling them - RD226 http://www.arb.com.au/media/products...rs/2-RD226.pdf ) and a detroit or something simliar in the front. But you might want to really beef it up and end up replacing the axles to comfortably run larger tyres. I replaced both front and rear axles with wrangler D44's so I could comfortable run 35's and fit proper ARB's front and rear.

The big selling point to me personally, of an overland instead a limited or laredo is the bullet-proof, HO 4.7, and when my std 4.7 eventually dies in the next 10 years or so, I'll be slotting in the high-output!

So I guess the biggest question is to work out in advance, how far you think you want to go, and what you want to get out of it, which can be very difficult when starting out.
When I initially put 33's on, I swore I'd never need anything bigger, but my driving and taste for crawling and tackling the toughest of tough has evolved and ended up with me modding to the level I have, for peace of mind in stronger components etc.

[Hammertone]

Sorry for my absence, been dealing with the death of a close family member. Hopefully resuming my jeep search will provide a bit of a distraction.

Originally Posted by v8_jofes

I'm curious to know what reference has told you red oil is incorrect? I'm running ATF III or IV in mine (can't remember which, I just know it was right at the time I put it in haha) and that is red, and I haven't had an issue yet

To be clear here, was this car Quadradrive, or only Quadratrac II?

Sorry for being unclear. The car in question was a limited. My understanding is that this will be a quadratrac II, right?

I've picked up most of my info from this amazing resource:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...guide-1271979/
Occaisionally you'll come across something on the web that just stuns you with the amount of work that someone has put in purely for the benefit of others, and this is one of those occasions.

Under The Test Drive/Common Problems - Transfer Case
"Models with QuadraDrive and Quadra-Trac II require special fluid for the transfer case but unfortunately, ATF+4 is often used instead (as that was the original specification in 1999). The end result is that you might notice some scrubbing sounds or binding from the front tires when you turn sharply (like in a normal parking lot manuever). Changing the fluid to the correct fluid often fixes the issue, but if it is left unresolved for a long time it can damage the transfer case...
...If it is red, it is the wrong fluid. It should be honey-colored."

The author notes the following as the correct fluid:
Transfer Case Fluid: Mopar NV245/247/249 fluid, P/N 05016796AC

It sounds very much like the symptoms that the limited i looked at was having. The car was in very good shape and had been well looked after, so it sounds reasonable that the binding on tight turns was caused by wrong transfer fluid. I guess the important point is: "if it is left unresolved for a long time it can damage the transfer case" So how do you tell if it's damaged or if the problem will be sorted with an oil change? I guess the only answer is to change the oil!

Originally Posted by v8_jofes

So I guess the biggest question is to work out in advance, how far you think you want to go, and what you want to get out of it, which can be very difficult when starting out.

Thanks for attempting to answer a very difficult question. From what you say, it looks like both the limited/laredo and overland have their benefits. Drop the HO in a limited/laredo, install aftermarket upgrades and you've got the best off-roader. I don't see myself going that far with it just yet, but the choice of a HO with quadra-drive vs standard 4.7 with fully upgraded diffs seems much of a muchness to this noob.

That's been really helpful actually. Unless someone else wants to pitch in with their opinion, it seems that the best option is just to buy the most mechanically sound car i can find without being concerned about choosing between a limited or overland. cheers!

[drover]

Use Mobil 424 in your transfer case, proven, reliable, very cost effective.

[Tyvokka]

Hi,

It goes back to the biggest question as was said earlier by jofes. To know that you need experience out in the bush to know how far you're wanting to push this thing. Then work out a budget, then everything else will flow. It won't happen overnight but with lots of reading on AJOR, JF and so on. There are plenty of examples, piccies and videos to see what you might want in your WJ/G.
All the best.

[v8_jofes]

Firstly, sincerest condolonces to you and your family for your loss.
To me, Jeeping (not just offroading) is a fantastic pastime that has brought a lot of light and happiness into my life where there was darkness. I wish you the very best of luck in finding the right Jeep, so that you too may experience this.

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Sorry for being unclear. The car in question was a limited. My understanding is that this will be a quadratrac II, right?

Not necessarily. Just because it was a limited, does not instantly mean it is a quadratrac II. Direct quote from the site you linked - "The standard 4WD system for a Grand Cherokee Limited was Quadra-Trac II but QuadraDrive was a common option."
The only way to know for sure is to look directly at the gear stick shifter bezel, where it will either say Quadratrac II or Quadradrive

Originally Posted by Hammertone

"damage the transfer case...
...If it is red, it is the wrong fluid. It should be honey-colored."

Ah, now we are getting to the point here. Initially you said red fluid in the transmission not the transfer case. Now you've clarified, you are 100% correct in that assumption of the "wrong" fluid in the transfer case

Originally Posted by Hammertone

The author notes the following as the correct fluid:
Transfer Case Fluid: Mopar NV245/247/249 fluid, P/N 05016796AC

Yep, or Mobil 242 as Drover says.

Originally Posted by Hammertone

It sounds very much like the symptoms that the limited i looked at was having. The car was in very good shape and had been well looked after, so it sounds reasonable that the binding on tight turns was caused by wrong transfer fluid. I guess the important point is: "if it is left unresolved for a long time it can damage the transfer case" So how do you tell if it's damaged or if the problem will be sorted with an oil change? I guess the only answer is to change the oil!

Reading the above again, binding in tight turns is basically the car getting wind-up in drivetrain components because of the inability of differential action at the centre diff (transfer case). Basically the centre is very tight because of the wrong fluid, meaning the clutch packs are biting harder than factory intended. This results in great off-road performance, however increased wear and faster component failure.
As to the current state of that particular transfer case, who knows? Depends on how it's been driven etc etc. Changing the oil would bring it's performance back to original intended specifications, but won't reverse the increased wear that has been done to it over the years.

Originally Posted by Hammertone

best option is just to buy the most mechanically sound car i can find without being concerned about choosing between a limited or overland. cheers!

Best way to go!

[Ian Sharpe]

Hi mate, Ive had my wj Overland for a couple of months now but have been heavily into 4wds since 1970s. Yeah long time.

The HO motor is a beauty & reasonably economical, IMO.
Every Wj i have driven has had absolutely abysmall handling, all over the place.

It cost me about 2k to get it all sorted, inc new bushes in the front & an Adco rear swaybar & OME 2" lift coils. Its still a bit twitchy on rough roads but heaps better than before.

The Overland has QDrive with vari lock axles, they work well but IMO arent as good as a proper locker. But really the WJ is only good because of that lovely motor, IMO if they didnt have the v8 they would be 10 high at the local tip.

Its not (offroad) as good as my 99 Paj with 33s & front locker & custom transfer case gears, I use that around my property,
but the Jeep is so good on the highway, not a huge vehicle for car parks etc & with all that power its just a breeze to drive.

For some reason they are as cheap as, & you can get real good low ks for less that 10k.

Good luck

[Hammertone]

Originally Posted by v8_jofes

Ah, now we are getting to the point here. Initially you said red fluid in the transmission not the transfer case. Now you've clarified, you are 100% correct in that assumption of the "wrong" fluid in the transfer case

Right, so i've led you astray here. Thanks for picking me up on that or i would've been chasing my tail for a while.

The red oil came from the filler under the bonnet, located just above the motor oil filler, and has a picture of a gear on it. That's the transmission filler right?

So in that case, i haven't checked the transfer case. To do so would require getting under the car with a hex key and cracking the fill plug, is that correct?

I did get in contact with the seller and they confirmed that it is a Quadra-Trac II system. So our diagnosis of scrubbing being caused by incorrect transfer case fluid may still hold. If i was to check the fluid and find it's the correct honey coloured type, then can we assume that the scrubbing is caused by something more serious and the car should be avoided? If, on the other hand, there is red transfer fluid, then perhaps the scrubbing can be rectified by replacing with the correct oil.

Ok, so a bit more investigation is warranted for this car then. I think i'll be looking at an overland tomorrow. It's a good 4 hour round trip to check out this one, but it seems to stack up well. Only owned by a father and son since new so at least the history is known. We'll see how we go.



Ian- the fuel comparison between the standard 4.7 and the HO is negligible, especially when on gas, so i'd have to say i am leaning toward the overland.

I was drawn to the jeep originally because of the cost for kilometre value. The only thing that came close was a discovery. I've heard too many horror stories about them though. I'm sure they're very reliable and capable off road, but i get the impression they take a lot of TLC to keep them that way.