Myths and fairy tails about the VM TD

[layback40]

Originally Posted by fabil

Hi folks .... I am a brazilian and here in brazil the cherokee and wrangler never was made here. All of then was made in argentina and was imported to here. Include the VM2.5 td motor. I have an 2001 Xj 2.5TDI .
Actually here sold jeep wrangler jk imported from méxico. Perhaps the will made here blecause the association crhysler / fiat. Rumors says that....

Sorry my poor english.

Regards

Hey fabil !
Welcome to AJOR !
Your English is fine.
If you put a post in the new members section I am sure we will all be keen to welcome you to our community.

[fabil]

hi folks

I am installing a oil radiator/cooler in my XJ diesel. I have a oil-flange to by-pass the oil-filter to radiator, but looking at the engine block I saw these two holes on the block with a allen bolts. What this is for? oil input-output lines?

tks

[Deezelweazel]

These inputs (or better outputs) are used on different cars. Behind them is a direct connection to the oil overpressure safety valve.

Your oil cooler is way to small, and located at a very inefficient position.
Sorry, that's is the truth.

[fabil]

the installing is not finished yet
realy the oil cooler is small ( originally of Alfa 164 V6 this measures are 25 x 8,5 x 5,5 cm), but I dont found more space to put a bigger cooler without major modifications / trims in the vehicle.

about inefficient position, I made holes in the bumper for ventilation, is better now?

where you installed your oil cooler? and your measures?

regards

[Deezelweazel]

Oh, let's install an oil cooler!


It does not work like that.





No, the holes in the bumper are not enough.
It just causes turbulences. which is absolutely not good for the intercooler.
It is too funny. Dang, that engine is engineered as a system. If you alter only one thing, it has consequences on other items.

Do you really want to continue with hose clamps? If you have about 2200rpms, it takes less than 3 seconds to drain your oil and before you even recognize your oil pressure sender warning light- and your engine is fried.

Get the hose connections crimped!

Is the hose engine oil resistant?. Hydraulic hoses are only resistant up to 90 degrees, the better ones 110°! Be careful!
Remove these aux lights, they decrease air flow significantly.

Hint: The orange Fram oil filter unit is one the cheapest and worst filters on earth. It does only contain glued cardboard as a filter mount. They are known to collapse internal. If this happens, your engine is gone.
Do not save the pennies here.
If you don't believe it- open it, I will pay the shipping and a new unit if Im wrong,lol.

Every bend of 90° causes an oil pressure drop of 0.3bar. Every 45° bend causes a drop of 0.2 bar. So if I look at your installation you already have some drop...

Please, rethink your installation.

I'm not telling you anything, since you appear to be a dealer according to your webpage.
You should know anyhow, lol.

You can buy my little 165 page brochure:
Jeep XJ Diesel Builders Performance Guide.
Everything, including pictures, dimensions, sources, causes, choices, modifications and calculations, prices and abilities is written down there.

[fabil]

Hi deezel ..
Thanks for you advices!

Curiously the franm oil filters here in brazil is recognized as excellent filters . What you think about bosh filters ?

Again about air turbulences on the bumper hole, i agree with you , but is better than notting, or not?

Yes , you are correct again, my pressurre drops a little bit. In cold start before cooler installation was 5~6 bar and with engine hot was 3 bar at idle . After cooler cold start drops for 4~4.5bar and warm is 2.5 bar at idle .

At 2000rpm pressure are 4bar with engine warm at 95°C. I checked the service manual and this pressures are inside of the tolerance range . Am i correct ?

I will to change the hose clamps for another with best gripe/clamping design ( or even crimps design like as you says ). The hoses are the best as i could found , good quality, for oil , high temps resistente and handles 10 bar pressures . Are not enough?

Regards

[Deezelweazel]

The oil pressure is more than ok!
Bosch does not build any filters by themselve- but they are known to be good. I have to look who is building them.

The turbulences.
Mr. Bernoulli and his laminar flow is a pain in the a**. But he was excellent.
Punching holes can be worse than going without it.
To find this out you need a vaccum meter. It shows the difference of laminar flow between the outside and the inside. Even the shape or a protection net is influencing the flow.
We wanted to protect the surface of an oil cooler with a wire net. It turned out that the mesh was to small. it made the cooler useless.
A punched out hole is what it is a simple plain hole- it does not allow any laminar flow.


Hydraulic hoses cover a pressure of 100 up to 200bar. And they are build to resist scuffing and bending. This is the range where you should look at.

Standard hoses with 10bar burst pressure are dangerous. During the start up phase pressure can exeed 10bars with ease.

Even standard oil coolers have a burst pressure rated around 20bar.

So what hoses to look at? Just do it as the pros. Use Teflon hoses. They are oil resistant and will never fail-if you can bite the coin. They are easily more expensive than your complete oil cooler arrangement.
But it is, without a doubt, the best insurance against fail. Havn't seen any race car with rubber hoses for years.

Last question: You do use an oil cooler without thermostat?
Thats not good, because warm up is extended tremedously.
There is a reason for the water/ oil cooler- it help to reach operational temperatures quicker during warm up. This engine is very sensitive to oil.