Oxygen Sensors

[javajeep]

Hi all ,

In my quest to finally get FrankenJeeps HD6 1.75" SU carburettor
jetted correctly I am buying a 3 wire oxygen sensor and air fuel
ratio meter [ an SU is a variable venturi carb used on MGBs , old
Jaguars etc ]

I know that lead kills the sensor but how quickly ?

Can I at least get a 1000 miles out of the sensor or is the sensors
death instantaneous ?

Alternatively I could run on unleaded for a few weeks just until I
get the carb dialed in.

I have run the carb for a year now and it is much smoother and
provides more power than the Solex carb I used to run and a lot more
resistant to vapor lock which was a major problem with running a
Solex in the tropics

There are no chassis dynos here and I have to profile the metering
needle myself so this is the only thing I can think of doing.

Advice please guys ...

Best regards

Tony G
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5
ignition, T90, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15"
Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

PROJECT GUNTER : "rUmBLe iN tHe JuNgLe" Conglomeration : CJ3a /
CJ5 / M38 /MitsuWillys 350 V8 5 speed, D18, Toyota FJ40 diffs, full
lockers, 36"x15" Simex extreme trekkers

http://groups.msn.com/javajeep

http://www.willyswarroom.javajeep.co.../ikonboard.cgi

[cherokee94nz]

Hasn't anyone got a dyno setup over there, will be cheaper and easier to set up the carb.

[javajeep]

Hasn't anyone got a dyno setup over there, will be cheaper and easier to set up the carb.

Nope !

I have a friend who is an expat chief mechanic of a large German car manufacturer and in their network they don't have a dyno nor do they know anyone who has

Mate - Jakarta is a real mix of 1st and 3rd World - most mechanics don't even have a timing light or a torque wrench - its all done by feel

Having said that I have checked some of their work and the torque settings and timing has been spot on , Javanese Black Magic I guess

[javajeep]

Jakarta Event 2002
Show Report
Jakarta Convention Centre


I'm standing, microphone in hand, facing a gathering of about 200 wide-eyed Indonesian car owners who have amassed to attend the first drivers' briefing for our inaugural Auto Salon in Jakarta. The ever-so-polite lads from Jakarta have given fellow judge Mark Boxer and myself a wonderfully friendly reception, and are inquisitive to know how the Aussie style of judging show cars works compared the system they've gotten used to in the past year or so.

Indonesia already has a couple of car show series that are, curiously enough, damn similar in format to our very own Aussie events. There's even a 'Final Battle' that is held by one particular series known as 'Auto Contest', which also happens to have an award known as 'King of Kings'! This series set up shop last year after obviously taking the time to study what we've been doing in Oz for the past six years. From all reports it is quite a simple task to win awards at the shows that already exist in Indonesia, as for a generous 'fee' of 5,000,000Rp (equivalent to about $AUS1,000) you can 'buy' pretty much whichever trophy you'd like to 'win' from the judges. We heard this same story from a number of different competitors over the weekend, and it certainly came as quite a surprise and disappointment to know that awards can be bought in this way.

So anyway, I begin the drivers' briefing by welcoming the newest members of the Auto Salon family to their first event, and I reassure them that none of such antics pays any dividends with our system. Whether they like it or not they'll just have to earn trophies the good old-fashioned way - by building the very best cars and by putting on a good show for the crowds.

Through the one hour long briefing I covered just about every aspect of our judging system for the attentive listeners, may of whom I'm sure didn't understand a word I said all night. That's okay with me, because the majority of the affluent population of Indonesia, from which all of our entrants are drawn, enjoy a decent grasp of English. Those who didn't would be able to glean info from their fellow competitors. At the end they all left happy in the knowledge that the Auto Salon judging system would be fair and impartial, with the one sole goal of encouraging them to build great cars and have fun. Which is just the way it should be.

As a straight up comparison to the Oz scene I can tell you that European cars are far more popular with the Indo builders, proven by the fact that around 40% of the cars at the show were BMWs, Mercs or similar. Like ex-patriot Indo builders in Australia, however, the Euro tuners tend to keep quite conservative with their mods, with lowering jobs, fat wheels, and sleek body kits making up the majority. One stand out was Wawan's BMW Z3 convertible complete with pumped rear guards, hand built Veilside inspired body kit, and Porsche Turbo rims. The owners claimed it featured a stroked 2.3-litre engine with tough internals, but I was sceptical as the exhaust note sounded rather tame. It was, however, good enough to win 'Hottest European Modified Car' and a couple of other awards.

Of the Japanese sourced cars present I can also confidently state that Hondas ruled the roost for popularity, and it was strange to see the two top Hondas of the show both being sedans instead of hatchbacks. Benny Oentoro travelled from the inland city of Surabaya in East Java to attend the show, which is roughly 1,000klm each way. His awesome green Civic sedan was even driven to the show under its own turbo-powered steam. After attending a number of other shows in the past year with the car Benny was ecstatic to walk away with a boot full of awards including a Nominee award for 'King of Auto Salon'.

"I've been waiting for you guys to bring Auto Salon to Indonesia for so long", he smiled to us, "When I attended some other events I was told my car had too many mods by the judges, who then told me to actually remove enhancements from my car if I wanted to win!"

Benny, it seems, fell victim to another competitor's bribery scam to win awards, and made it clear to us that Auto Salon was the first event where he'd felt the winners actually deserved what they had won.

"I'm confident that many of the top cars are present this weekend because the Aussie judges are here to run the show", he confided.

Benny's Civic, like many other cars at the show, was crammed full of the very latest tuning gear from Japan and the States. I even lost count of the number of cars that had either wet or dry NOS systems installed, and a great number of cars featured Spoon, Porsche 'Big Red', or Tarox brake upgrades. I also noted that as soon as Mark or myself approached any of the cars to judge them the owners would start the engine and invite me to rev the hell out of it to see and hear what its tune was like. I had to explain to them that this wasn't necessary, after all, we could see the tuning hardware that they had in place and we didn't feel like filling the halls up with exhaust smoke!

While it was very encouraging to see so many seriously modified engines in Jakarta, Mark and I certainly got the impression, though, that most of the mods had been bolted on without proper tuning. We then found out that there is only one dyno in the whole of Indonesia! I shudder to think of the tuning state of many of the cars at the show without the aid of dyno time and proper expertise!

Awarding our first 'King of Auto Salon' award was quite a treat for everyone concerned, even though we made it far simpler for these first timers by not judging the SPL portion and omitting the dyno category for obvious reasons. Benny made the cut, as did Rudy and his silver Honda Civic sedan complete with Bride interior, digital Motec dash, turbo conversion and 19-inch rims measuring 8.5-inches wide at the rear!

Our winner was a quiet chap named Roni, who stunned the crowd with his MY99 WRX displayed proudly inside a full-tilt custom display with trussing, lights, wood floor, and hand made perspex display boards featuring his car's entire mods list. The list was extensive to say the least, with every HKS bolt performance bolt-on available as well as half the Do-Luck body kit catalogue. Roni even told us that he'd painted the car its cool shade of metallic blue a week prior to the show just so it would stand out better!

With plans to host a full five events across Indonesia in 2003 it looks as if my judging staff will be racking up the frequent flyer points big time next year. It's worth it though, as the car builders have proven to be able to construct cars that are every bit as cutting edge and exciting as those back home. I dare say they do it with a little bit more taste for the most part too to be honest. I just can't wait to see where this scene goes over the coming year considering it was their first ever Auto Salon. Hopefully the end of next year will see the top Indo car coming to Australia to attend final battle. Now that would be cool.

I tried to call the ' one dyno place ' a few months ago and the phone has been disconnected and no one knows the number - even if I did track it down with the number of theives that run workshops here I am better to try and do it myself

Everything from tools to nuts and bolts it's a battle to get hold of quality stuff

[javajeep]

I bought a Tridon universal o2 sensor today for $100 [trade] , it allows for 1 , 2, 3 and 4 wire hook up.

I will run FrankenJeep on unleaded gas for a few weeks while I get the carb dialled in

[Grant]

Personally I cannot see the need for the O2 Sensor when running with a leaded engine particularly when using the SU carbie. hook it all up and go for a drive then check the exhaust pipe colour if the fuel air mix is right then inside of tail pipe should be grey in color if it is a pale grey then increase fuel to air ratio if tending to black then decrease fuel mix. dead simple. Most of the younger generation that have only dealt in unleaded fuels only know one colour (black due to the lack of lead in the fuel).
The MG variant SU carbies are great simple efficient and easy to tune are you running single or dual setup and more importantly did the carb come from a single or twin setup.
If it is off a single setup then should be very easy to dial in, if off a twin / dual / multiple setup then needle and seat will need to be changed.
Would have thought a 2 inch SU would have been a better choice, over the 1 3/4".
Also make sure that you have the correct weight oil in the damper or you will spend years trying to get the thing dialed in.
Me I love SU carbies they are so easy, simple and once you get the hang of then so easy to dial in.

[javajeep]

Personally I cannot see the need for the O2 Sensor when running with a leaded engine particularly when using the SU carbie. hook it all up and go for a drive then check the exhaust pipe colour if the fuel air mix is right then inside of tail pipe should be grey in color if it is a pale grey then increase fuel to air ratio if tending to black then decrease fuel mix. dead simple.

Would have thought a 2 inch SU would have been a better choice, over the 1 3/4".

I spoke to SU midel in Sydney and bought the carb new. I worked with Bill Bressington the owner for 6 mths when I was selling performance parts in 1983 [ I worked for Fabre Australian after I resigned from my 'day job' and my original employer hired me back 6 mths later with a 75% pay increase ]

Bill has been working with SUs since 1945 [ not a misprint ] and he recommended the 1.75" , anyhow I checked a few carb sizing charts and the F-134 is borderline for a 2" application and they are twice the price.

Most of the younger generation that have only dealt in unleaded fuels only know one colour (black due to the lack of lead in the fuel).
The MG variant SU carbies are great simple efficient and easy to tune are you running single or dual setup and more importantly did the carb come from a single or twin setup. If it is off a single setup then should be very easy to dial in, if off a twin / dual / multiple setup then needle and seat will need to be changed.

It is actually an SU off a twin carb 2.5 litre Daimler V8

The 2.5 litre Landrover runs a HD6 also so we started with an SS needle but the Jeep engine just wouldn't run on it and required needle filing to get it to run , I think we went too far and it is running a little rich - we thought dropping the Landrover needle in would do the trick but it didn't

Also make sure that you have the correct weight oil in the damper or you will spend years trying to get the thing dialed in.

I have heard so many varying opinions on the weight of oil to use. Bill suggested running the same oil in the dampers as the engine is running.

Other guys swear by auto trans fluid

A great article here

http://www.jetlink.net/~okayfine/su/airfuel.html

For the best solution check out this , a wide band analyser - I didn't know they existed

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/